What a disaster...

[lectraplayer]

I have been having problems out of my pH in my 29g being up around 8.4, but my bleeding hearts were fine. I have been having problems with my neons but I had them in quarantine until a few days ago. were fine. Later found out part of my problem was MgSO4 I was dosing for my plants. My other tank (10g) also has been getting MgSO4 but my pH has been staying in the sevens and my rasboras and otto cats are fine. I put some oak blow-down logs (the size of one's arm) from a tree in my yard to help buffer my pH back down last night. I don't use chemicals, not even on my grass. Fish were still fine this morning. However, when I got back home from church, something had nuked every one of my fish. I changed 10 gallons out drawn from my well (my usual water source) while they were all adrift but still breathing. They would also try to shake loose when I would go to pick them out (so I would leave them). A few minutes later, they died the rest of the way. What could have been in the oak that killed my fish? What else would be a likely cause?

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[treemanone2003]

Out of curiosity, have you tested your well water ? As far as the wood, it could be anything. If you've introduced it without properly prepping it, there's really no telling. There's a host of diseases and pests that could be present in both dead and live trees not to mention if it's something that it could have been treated with. If it came of the forest floor, you could imagine anything that passes over it, has.

 

[lectraplayer]

The blow-down fell in my yard from a tree that also is in my yard.

The well water is the same water I am using in all three of my tanks, but only one tank developed a problem, and very suddenly.

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[Caliban07]

The least required to treat the wood would have been a soak in some boiling water.

What was the ph when they died is there any way you can check?

I'm thinking ph change. Although I'm not sure it would have been so drastic that it would kill the fish.

What were the fishes behaviour before they died?

I'm thinking something else has happened here. Tell us more about the magnesium sulphate problem and the neons.

 

[lectraplayer]

The pH really didn't move as I was expecting, but it stayed at 8.4 (which was a big part of why I started putting wood in). Since then, I have removed the wood, did an 80% wc (water before adding was 7), and the pH was still 8.4. I have since added two "family size" Red Diamond tea bags to my filter and my blackwater (without fish) is still 8.0.

All the fish, prior to death, started swimming up and down the side of the tank together in one big school. Among my Googling, nobody seems to know what that tells me. In the last moments, they lost strength and couldn't hold themselves in an orientation. I did a 50% wc here. They kept fading for another 30 minutes then were gone.

The neons were in my 10g with my rasboras. I started noticing one neon that wasn't eating and often was getting bullied, so I scooped him out and put him in quarantine. Next day, another "victim of the mob" was noted, so I scooped him out. Day after, I started seeing a couple that had "cotton" on them, so I dug everybody out leaving the otto cats and the rasboras alone, though I think I mashed one tetra in the process. I also salted my quarantine tank. I had three die, each a couple days apart, while the cotton went away on the affected fish. The other four soon perked up afterward and were monitored schooling around the quarantine tank for another week. I then introduce them to the 29g with the bleeding hearts. They all seem happy for another week despite a pH of 8.4. I put the oak log in and 24 hours later everybody starts doing the up and down thing (and I still haven't figured out what this tells me besides the log may be to blame somehow). It's all downhill from there. (See above)

I was dosing MgSO4 for my plants after much research at a rate of 1tsp per 5 gallon bucket of water changed at each water changed on all tanks. Last change was several days before using the log.

My nitrogen levels were 0-0-10ppm.

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[Caliban07]

The only other thing. How long have you been dosing magnesium sulphate and did you change the dosing regime at all? Do you top off the tank for evaporation?

I'm thinking it's the log but magnesium sulphate will raise the general hardness of the water. If you do a regular water change with mag sulphate then the fish might be ok. But say if you did a 50% change without the sulphate then this would be a big change for the fish. Topping of evaporated water will also increase TDS over time until it becomes a lethal level.

If the cotton was on the mouth then that could be columnaris. A disease that can strike chronically or acutely wiping out the entire stock in hours. If it was body fungus then it may have been caused by stress from an imbalance of water chemistry.

I'm just trying to throw ideas out there but defo sounds like this branch has something to do with it.

 

[lectraplayer]

That's what I'm thinking (log). I dosed MgSO4 at each water change, but I did not with this latest water change after the fish died. For top-offs, I never dose.

The cotton was a vertical stripe on one side of one, and a spot on the other neon. Both right behind the dorsal fin.

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[Caliban07]

That's what I'm thinking (log). I dosed MgSO4 at each water change, but I did not with this latest water change after the fish died. For top-offs, I never dose.

The cotton was a vertical stripe on one side of one, and a spot on the other neon. Both right behind the dorsal fin.

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Top offs for evaporation won't matter whether you use magnesium sulphate or not. Whatever salts and metals are in the well water will be left behind during evaporation increases the salt/metals concentration. If you use well water for top offs then the concentration will increase again the water evaporates again increasing concentration until the TDS (total dissolved solids) reaches a level to great (I don't know what that level is)

Bottom line is fish don't like change, especially sudden changes. It can have an overwhelming affect on the osmoregulatory system causes cells to rupture as the try to find the new balance.

Again it could have been the branch but usually changes to the norm can have repercussions. Top off with distilled or r/o water so you are not adding to the tds levels.

Plants can receive there magnesium and calcium requirements by adding crushed coral to the filter. When it dissolved just add new. I would scrap the magnesium sulphate and add a micro nutrient fertiliser. If you are heavily planted you can do smaller water changes also.

Good luck with your next batch, my bed time.

 

[treemanone2003]

Are you treating your water with any dechlorinator ? Have you aged your tap water for 24 hours and then tested it ?

 

[lectraplayer]

I do treat my tap water but my well water is straight from the ground and thus is suitable. I have aged my well water and it stays with a pH of 7 like it comes up. I try not to use tap water because of the chemicals.

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[lectraplayer]

I'm introducing a handful of Eastern Shiners to test the waters. So far, I have a large school doing great. I intend to move the shiners to a mosquito breeding pool behind my house when I'm ready to introduce my real stock again.

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