What about ick on goldfish?

[angelboyblue3]

I have some long tail comets, and some chubs. I have used salt, and quick cure but its not seeming to work yet. I have been told that I cant raise the temp above 75ich. They just sit at the bottom and have a hard time breathing. I have even tried the garlic exsrtact. im not sure what to do.

 

[dr_girlfriend]

Do a large water change first. Raise the temp up to 84ish over the course of 24 hours. Be sure the water is well aerated. Then add 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon split up into 3 doses. Every 12 hours add the doses of salt. Keep this level of salt for at least 2 weeks, this will nuke the ick.
Whoever told you you cant raise the temp above 75 is an idiot and doesnt know jack about goldfish.
Act quickly though, it sounds like your fish are getting close to death. How long have they had ick?

 

[angelboyblue3]

Over a week. I have already added 7.6 grams of salt per gallon. they are very lethargic, and stay at the bottom. a few will sometimes go to the top for food. I have had mostly koi and goldfish in the past so I dont have a heater anymore. I didnt buy one because I was told not to use heat. I started using quick cure. Should I use salt in conjunction with this cure. I will measure out a tablespoon of salt and see how many grams it is and add the remainder. It looks very grim.

 

[angelboyblue3]

One Teaspoon is about 8 grams. One Tablespoon is about 24 grams. Are you sure to use a whole Tablespoon per gallon. I guess I will try this. thanks

 

[greenmaji]

a temperature of 85+ degrees alone will kill the ick.. the salt is just a added measure at this point if you have been dosing salt for over a week you should be fine to not increase the heat.. you shouldnt have visible ick at this point if you have been dosing enough salt.. the ick should be dead after 2 weeks with either the salt or heat treatment..
have you read the artical here on AA?

 

[angelboyblue3]

I have been dosing the tank with 8 grams of salt per gallon for 4 days
I have been adding malachite green for one week.
Now im using a combination of malachite green and formalin.
I have NOT raised the temp because I was told not to by the pet store people.
The fish are not better and they are now not eating.
They spend their day sitting at the bottom not moving.
The ick is not going away and im starting to notice that the gills are very red.
Could this be instead that velvet stuff. whats it called with the gold spots instead? How do I treat that?
This is confusing me, I have never had this kind of problem before.
im very frustrated.
Would appreciate all the help I can get.
Thanks

 

[ScaryBob]

Increasing the temperature increases the life cycle of the ick parasite and gets rid of it faster. Dosing your fish with ick cure is also bad for them since the cure is a poison. That is why the water temperature is increased in conjunction with the cure. Increase the tank temperature about 2° every 8-12 hours until it reaches 84° for 2-3 days and then slowly decrease it by the same amount. Apply the ick cure until you start to decrease the tank temperature. Perform a 20% water change every 2-3 days until you stop giving the ick cure. 1 day after you stop giving the ick cure perform a 20% water change and put a new filter with activated carbon in your tank filter.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Goldfish can take the upped heat, as long as your provide some extra aeration for the water. Since they come from colder waters, their bodies are formed so that they need the extra aeration that cold water provides. Warm water is just fine for them, granted you replace the lost aeration (warmer water = less oxygen). It sounds as if you are getting no where fast with your treatment. I'd start upping the heat very slowly.

 

[dr_girlfriend]

GRRR!! It is so frustrating to me that so many goldfish suffer because of the ignorance of "sales" people. If you dont believe me fine. Got to this web site and it will back up everything I told you. http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=22&category=17&name=Diseases
Stop using formalin, salt and heat are all you need. You need BOTH because there have been reports of heat tolerant ick. If you dont raise the heat the icks life cycle can be days, even weeks and will kill your fish before they start to die off.

The gills of your fish turning red is a very bad sign. You need to start this treatment ASAP to have any chance. The ick is infesting the gills and basically slowly suffocating the fish. I know 1 tablespoon sounds like alot, but its really not. I do not recommend using formalin because it can be very easy to OD and kill your fish with. Plus its very harsh on fish that are already weak.

If youre serious about keeping koi and goldfish, I highly recommend you read every article on the website I gave you, and also buy the book Fancy Goldfish : Complete Guide To Care And Collecting by Erik Johnson and his other book, Koi Health and Disease. These should be your bible to koi and goldfish keeping.

I know its frustrating when youre getting alot of different info, and dont know who to trust. Goldfish are a big part of my life, and I'm telling you to trust what I'm telling you and trust that website. I hate to hear of so many goldfish suffering that could easily be saved or the problem avoided altogether because of common myths and just sheer ignorance. HTH

 

[greenmaji]

of course all ich is heat tolerant if you only raise the temperature to 84 degrees.. thats not hot enough to kill any ich. and ich is a cold water protozoan therefore heat alone kills it (if heat wont kill it, it is not ich).. using heat and salt will be the fastest way of killing ich, the heat speeding up the life cycle and killing it and the salt killing it faster.. its redundant.
If you have reports of heat tolerant ich you should post the links in general discussion so the data can be analyzed and verified.

 

[dr_girlfriend]

I'm not saying 84 degrees will kill ick, you need salt with it. This is a tried and true cure. I'm not trying to start some heat vs. salt debate. Every time someone on this site says "My goldfish has ich", I give them the simple proven way to cure them of ich. Ive done it myself, breeders do it, It works. But almost every time, no one listens and their fish die. Dont ask for advice if youre not going to take it.

Dude, why the heck are you using formalin???? I just noticed in your thread youre using all these chemicals together??
Formalin and salt will cause burns. Get all that crap out of your tank immediatley. I think by this point your fish arent going to make it anyhow.

I dont have the report of the heat resistant ich anymore, its from the U of florida though.

 

[greenmaji]

If I were you I would shoot the university of mississippi an email.. they have the huge catfish grants and would be able to answer the heat resistant ich question..(if this really is an issue why did purdue university in conjuntion with the university of illinois just publish a DOA fact sheet on heat alone killing ich, federal fact sheet AS-459?) Ive used heat alone so many times I cant even count it.. if you raise the temperature just one more degree your going to be giving the ich a double wamy as far as treatment is concerned and I say if your going to bother getting it all the way up to 84 degrees you might as well raise it up another degree or two and insure its timely demise.
Im not saying your method will not work.. in fact Im saying its more then nessisary there isnt a published paper about a salt resistant strain of ich out there is there? I didnt think so... as long as your using salt your killing the ich..

And using the chemicals at all is not advisable.. the salt alone will work.. the higher temperatures will make it work faster.. Do a 75% water change as soon as possible and then do another one the next day and only replace the salt for the water removed.. all while keeping the temperature up high and you should have sucess at killing the ich.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Actually, if we are getting technical, the temperature of your tank needs to be 86 or higher, not 84 or higher. The fact is, heat kills ich. Good luck with your treatment.

 

[angelboyblue3]

I will give the salt and heat a go. I have lost four fish now. The one with the reddest gills. im so pissed at the pet shop. I think all they wanted to do is sell me expensive stuff. You know whats funny is that pet smart, a huge chain of pet stores gave me the best advice and didnt try and sell anything. hmm.

Thank you very much for all your help. I just hope the rest survive. sniff sniff.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Good Luck angelboy. Sorry to hear about your fishies

 

[dr_girlfriend]

well, I'll go by veterinary recommendations, you guys go by whatever method you read somehwere.

Hope your remanding fish survive angelboy. I hope you got a big tank too because comets get really big. good luck!

 

[angelboyblue3]

sigh, alas it didnt work. I have lost 10 out of 11. The last one SEEMS to be getting better. I had two others that looked way better and just died. im wondering if the heat is a bit much for goldfish over the long term. They were sarigossa comets or something like that, and chubunkin. Sorry if the names are incorrect. I took the temp up to 86, increased the salt to one tablespoon, and sit back and watch them die. sigh.

I read a different post about KOI that said to only raise it to 80.

Additionally this ick seems pretty heat tolerant. hmm.

Just my thoughts.

Next time im buying much larger fish. Perhaps the size will help.

 

[greenmaji]

I first treated ich with heat 16 years ago.. it wasnt just something I read somewhere..

 

[angelboyblue3]

Well... now that only one has survived and looks very healthy. It has been about 5 days without any sign of problems. im considering putting more goldfish in the tank in about... 5 days.

Now my question is The salt content is at 3 teaspoons per gallon. Can or do I leave it at those levels or remove some of the salt. I was thinking 1 teaspoon per gallon. Will introducing new fish into that much salt be bad. hmm need some more advice, thanks.

 

[patagonia]

if u are just finishing dealing with ick i would recommend that you quarantine all the new fish you are planning to add to your tank...you dont want to go through the same thing again...do you?