Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 10-29-2018, 11:43 AM   #1
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
fishfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,038
Which of these could be leading to fin rot?

long version:
Here we go I'll start from the top. I have kept several aquariums in the past but have taken a five or so year break from the hobby. My wife decided last month for my birthday to surprise me by encouraging me to set up one of my previous tanks. I set the tank up and began the process of fishless cycling on September 28th. I was using the 10% strength ammonia from ace hardware to dose the tank to approximately 2-4 ppm, I also began lightly planting the tank, this went on for 2 weeks or so until my wife (bless her heart) Oct 18th got an idea that she would surprise me with a Betta. At this point the cycle was not finished I was starting to see some decrease in ammonia but no real detectable nitrItes. So here is when my judgment starts to fail me, I thought that my tank couldn't possibly be any worse then the cup the Betta was sitting in. I did several large water changes to get the ammonia levels down and went through the process of adding the little guy to the tank. Knowing that I was now doing a Fish in cycle I started doing daily 50% water changes trying to battle the ammonia levels. Fast forward to a few days ago, I got sick and was unable to keep up on the daily water changes for several days when I finally came around Sunday the ammonia was sitting around .5 ppm and I started to notice signs of fin rot which has been progressing very quickly. I immediately did a 50% water change waited a few hours and did another 50% water change.
These levels of ammonia would obviously stress the fish and is probably the cause the of the fin rot however I have another strange thing with the tank that I would like advice with. Early into cycling the tank I started to notice some yellow spots appearing on the silicone seals of the aquarium and can be scrapped off with my fingernail. The white suction cup on my CO2 defuse also turned a yellowish color not long after putting it into the tank (not sure if its related). They only appeared on the silicone and suction cup nowhere else, could this be a type of bacteria or fungus that could be contributing to the fin rot? Does anyone know what the yellow spots actually are? Is it some kind of reaction from the ammonia I was adding when cycling the tank? Any thoughts on this would be great!

summary:
1) My new Betta is suffering from fin rot that has been progressing very rapidly.
The most obvious cause is elevated ammonia levels, however they were only elevated for 2-3 days before I noticed. Could the effects of elevated ammonia happen that quickly?

2) There are strange yellow spots on the silicone of the aquarium and the suction cup of the CO2 diffuser. The yellow spots on the silicone can be scraped off with my fingernail. Could these be a problem/ be adding to the fin rot?

about the tank:
-7.9 gallon (Fluval Flora)
-temp 78 degrees F
-CO2 injected (turned off for now to minimize stress on the fish)
-no plant ferts as of yet have been added to the aquarium
-was fishless cycling for about 10 days until it became fish in cycling
-most of the time the fish has been in the tank the ammonia has been just a slight shade about 0~.1ppm, nitrItes 0ppm, nitrAtes ~ 5ppm. The last 2-3 days the ammonia elevated to .25~.5ppm, nitrItes 0ppm, and nitrAtes ~5ppm.
-tap water conditioner API stress coat (tap water has 0ppm ammonia)
-fish diet Aqueon Betta Food (every day), and live brine shrimp (once a week)

steps taken so far:
-yesterday I did two 50% water changes several hours apart.
-lowered the aquarium temp to 76 (I read this can slow down the bacteria growth a little)

possible solutions in my mind:
1) move plants to another container and add 1 teaspoon/gal aquarium salt while continuing 50% daily water changes
2) move the fish to a makeshift QT (plastic tub with heater and air stone) and dose QT with aquarium salt and or Jungle Fungus Clear (or other medication) while I try to figure out the yellow stop stuff.
3) move plants to another container and dose the entire aquarium with medication and see if that clears up the yellow spots and the fin rot.
4) insert your suggestions.

I will attach a few photos
(1) the yellow stuff on the silicone here half is scraped off
(2) the yellowing of the originally white suction cup
(3) the Betta as he looks now
(4) the Betta as he looked before (also the yellow stuff visible on the silicone)

Thank you all so much for all your help and advice!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20181029_083504.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	113.2 KB
ID:	310825   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181029_083427.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	111.6 KB
ID:	310826  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20181029_064446.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	103.4 KB
ID:	310827   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181019_165441 (1).jpg
Views:	30
Size:	187.6 KB
ID:	310828  

__________________

__________________
Fishfanatic 90 gallon build
fishfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2018, 07:25 PM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
King Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,925
It's not uncommon to run ammonia at .25 to .50ppm when doing a fish in cycle. Beneficial bacteria needs to feed on ammonia. I don't think a few days of ammonia at .50 ppm would cause fin rot. I'm leaning more towards that condition being an issue from the pet store you got him from.

Keep up the regular partial water changes. 50% every other day would be sufficient. Testing the water can give you a good schedule. Keep ammonia no higher than .25 ppm. Lower is fine.

Im fairly sure you can dose aquarium salt at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water and still keep your plants from dying. Unless you have really sensitive plants.

Not sure what the yellow stuff is. I'm guessing it could be biofilm or some sort of algae??? Doubt it's anything harmful to the fish.

I'd keep the temp up around 78 to 79 degrees to keep your fish comfortable. It also helps with the beneficial bacteria growth.
__________________

__________________
King Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 12:18 AM   #3
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
fishfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,038
King Fisher thank you for the reply, I wasn't sure the kind of time frame it would take for something like this to develop. It sounds like he was already sick a month ago but I'm just now seeing the results of the fins being tattered and ripped and the additional stress of a new tank probably didn't help him out.
Would you suggest dosing with aquarium salt then? I assume the salt won't harm the small amount of BB I might already have?
So far I haven't noticed any white fuzz or anything on the fins, thankfully!
__________________
Fishfanatic 90 gallon build
fishfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 01:25 AM   #4
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
King Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,925
Frequent water changes and salt at this early of a stage of fin damage should be sufficient. Make sure you keep up with the water changes and add 1teaspoon of salt every 5 gallons of water. Feed him a high quality food. Hikari Betta pellets or Omega One Betta pellets is a good choice. Bettas are omnivores so get some veggie pellets as well and feed him these twice a week. Omega one makes mini veggie pellets that's sufficient for Bettas. Health through diet and clean water will do wonders. Look into getting API Stress Coat and dosing your tank with it. It has aloe vera and I've had success in using this.

Salt does not harm BB. In fact, BB grows in salt water aquariums.

Keep us updated.
__________________
King Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 03:20 AM   #5
Aquarium Advice Addict
Community Moderator
 
Autumnsky's Avatar



POTM Champion
Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,877
I was also going to say the recent ammonia increase likely not THE cause, it was possibly a tipping point where he was already in a compromised condition, so it didn't help.

Unfortunately the travel stress for the fish and the repeated poor water which is in the small containers often from lack of care in changing the water and often over feeding just puts the fish in a delicate state.

Ideally he would be in a cycled tank at this point to help him get better.

If you have a decent light, some stem plants might help use up ammonia. But if they start to get pale and degrade get them out quickly / throw them into a vase with tank water until they recover or die.

Feed more slowly, like a pellet at a time, and then possibly will be less waste, and less ammonia. Try feeding the smaller amounts 2-3 times per day. He does need good food to regain his immune system and get strong again. This will help him get a good supply of food.

Clean water is key as you know.

If you haven't seen these articles could help with additional pointers.

Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice


I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

The yellow spots are not likely anything hurting the fish. When the tanks get started frequently there are spots which get diatoms, but these are probably a fungus, like can happen with DW in the initial stages of a tank start up. You can wipe them off.

You mentioned CO2, has that been staying in safe concentration in the tank? If it goes out of line, it can also be stressful for the fish.

If you have plain Epsom salts (Magnesium Sulfate - no additives or oils or spices), you can dissolve it into a cup of hot water, add cool water (or even ice cubes) to make it tank temp, add water treatment to make it safe. You can use it with the real salt.

After a pwc, leave room to add this in.

Add this into the tank 1/4 amount at a time over the course of 12-24 hours.

The amount you can start with is 1 tablespoon per gallon.

After the initial treatment amount, you can mix up a ratio of this as a concentrate to use at each pwc to keep it at the 1 Tablespoon per gallon amount. Plants like it. Not toxic to the fish - this amount has been used to help many Betta through any number of issues.

Usually I will mix this up and add to a plastic gallon container.

Good Betta care to you, hope it all helps.
__________________

New to FW fish? First tank in a long time or EVER??? Need some info on keeping fish?
Start here - Aquarium Advice Article
https://www.aquariumadvice.com/guide...ater-aquarium/

Community Rules
https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ork&page=rules

FW & SW
Favorite tank right now -5G Spec V Snails & Betta
Autumnsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 01:23 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
fishfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,038
Thank you Autumnsky and King Fisher!

Yesterday I was able to get a hold of some substrate from a friends established tank, I added this to the filter media in the filter to hopefully help the cycle out a little bit.

To answer some of your questions and comments:
King Fisher, I have been using API stress coat as my water conditioner. From what I understood it removes chlorine and all that jazz from the tap water.

Diet, in the past I think I remember feeding my fish cooked peas, will that be sufficient to get some veggies into his diet? Good call on feeding more slowly, I have been doing this for a week or so and it has helped a lot, Drax usually gets distracted and doesn't notice the food if there is more then 1 or 2 pellets in there at a time. I usually feed him 3 pellets in the morning and 3 in the evening, does that sound like the right amount?

Autumnsky, the CO2 levels have been in check and well within safe perimeters when it is running, but I have turned it off for now to prevent the Ph swings that comes from having it turn on and off. I currently have some stem plants that are growing pretty good.

My plan now:
-Start adding 1 teaspoon of API aquarium salt for every 5 gallons of water (should I do more? 1 tablespoon per gallon seems like a lot is that only if using epsom salt?)
-I already gradually raised the temp back to 78 degrees.
-50% daily PWC possibly every other day to try and prevent stress depending on tank levels
- feed him cooked peas twice a week (I guess we will find out how picky of an eater he is)
- Any other thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated!

Thanks again for the advice!
__________________
Fishfanatic 90 gallon build
fishfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 04:32 PM   #7
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
King Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,925
You might also add in a little seachem Prime. It detoxifies heavy metals, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

Your water change schedule is good.

I've only used Epsom salt once for bloating/constipation, in a fish I had. I can't remember the dose but I think I dose the same as I do aquarium salt. Autumn probably has more experience with the use of Epsom salt.

I wouldn't add aquarium salt and Epsom salt at the same time. I would think it would be to much salt.

Your feeding the correct amount. I wouldn't feed anymore than that daily. Skip a day of feeding every week to help out his digestion.
__________________
King Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 05:48 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
fishfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,038
Okay so I have never used aquarium salt in any of my tanks the only reason I have API aquarium salt is I use it to hatch brine shrimp to feed fish.
I was just about to add the salt to the tank when I started researching it a little bit I had no idea how contriversal a topic using aquarium salt in a freshwater tank was! Now I'm freaked out, some people say it does more harm then good, others say it is the best thing ever. I'm so confused.

What do you guys think if I hold off on the salt and try keeping the water quality better as a treatment? Or in your opinion is Drax past the point of healing on his own with just clean water?
__________________
Fishfanatic 90 gallon build
fishfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 06:01 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Addict
Community Moderator
 
Autumnsky's Avatar



POTM Champion
Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,877
The amount of 1 tablespoon per gallon is a therapeutic amount for helping heal.

Epsom Salt is a misnomer as it is actually MagnesI'm Sulphate not a salt. So if you needed to you can use them together.
BUT if you feel he's getting better without it no worry and just keep up with clean water.
__________________

New to FW fish? First tank in a long time or EVER??? Need some info on keeping fish?
Start here - Aquarium Advice Article
https://www.aquariumadvice.com/guide...ater-aquarium/

Community Rules
https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ork&page=rules

FW & SW
Favorite tank right now -5G Spec V Snails & Betta
Autumnsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 07:11 PM   #10
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
King Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,925
Thanks for clearing that up Autumn. I learned something new.

A lot of people have never used AS and regurgitate misinformation on the internet. You will be using AS for a short period of time for healing purposes not long term. Although, some fish keepers use it regularly and long term in their tanks. AS is actually recommended in many books as a treatment for fin damage.

Ultimately, its your fish to make the decision with.
__________________

__________________
King Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fin, fin rot, ich, rot

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Substrate leading to nitrates??? rockyofhockey Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 6 03-24-2015 05:10 PM
Fin Rot leading to fungal/bacterial growth jlbfish Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 11 01-24-2013 11:39 AM
Betta - Fin Loss? Fin Rot? Or Fin Nipping? Or is it something else!? Saltypuppy Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 64 03-26-2011 09:25 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.