Yeah... another ick question (I've read the sticky)

[Guest]

Ok, I have a 40 gallon freshwater Eclipse tank with the following fish in it:

Black Knife 6"
5 Cichlids 3"
1 Spotted Pleco 3"
1 Ornate Birchir 5"

I change water every week, and nitrate, nitrite, amonia, ph, and hardness are all in safe levels. I feed flake food and occasionally frozen bloodworms/brine shrimp or cichlid pellets. Water temp at 81 degrees.

Last week I noticed the Black Knife had spots on it that looked like Ich. None of the other fish had or currently have spots. I moved the Black Knife to a 6 gallon tank I had set up and started treatment with 250mg Tetracycline Hydrochloride ed for three days now (T.C. Capsules by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.). It is not an ich treatment because the guy at the fish store was adamant that an ich cure would kill the black knife.

Question #1 - Is there any truth to that?

Question #2 - Anyway, its been three days now and the spots are still present, should I finish up with the Tetracycline Hydrochloride for 5 more days, or switch to an ich medication?

In the 40 gallon tank, I have been using an ich treatment the last three days called Nox-ich that contains the ingredients Soduim Chloride and Malachite Green.

Question #3 - How long should I treat the 40 gallon tank? None of the fish show signs of ich, but I assume it must be present in the tank if the black knife got it.

Thanks everyone who responds, I could really use some expert opinions!

 

[An t-iasg]

Welcome to Aquarium Advice!

Are any of the fish newly added? Did you feed live foods recently? Those are some common ways that ich get introduced into the tank.

If none of the other fish have spots, maybe it's not ich. After looking at the pics in the article, does this look like your fish? If it is ich, and only one fish in the tank showed ich spots, then I would treat the whole tank, like you're doing. If no fish in the 40 gallon has spots, I would stop using the meds, but be ready to use the heat treatment if they do show spots.

I would try the heat method with the knife fish too -- the black knife is generally sensitive to meds. Ich meds only work in a limited window of time anyway, when the ich is in the free-swimming stage. You could do a large water change and run carbon to remove the meds before trying the heat method. Watch him, though -- from what I read, this fish is sensitive to changes in water conditions also. Warmer water (at the temps needed to treat for ich) sometimes causes stress because it doesn't contain as much oxygen as cooler water. To remedy this, you could play with the filter a bit to increase splashing and aeration. You could lower the water level if you have a HOB filter and this would cause some splashing. If you have a canister, you could adjust the spraybar.

So, for now I would keep the black ghost separated from the others, and try the heat method on him if you suspect ich. Watch the 40 gallon tank to confirm if it is or isn't ich in that tank. Hope this helped a little!

 

[Guest]

Are any of the fish newly added? Did you feed live foods recently? Those are some common ways that ich get introduced into the tank.

2 of the Cichlids were recently added, but I think the way the ich got in was that I was feeding the Birchir feeder fish, which I have since stopped doing. The Black Knife's symptoms look mostly like the ich pictures posted, except that the spots almost look silver, like he got covered in glitter. How long should I treat the 40 gallon tank? Thanks again.

 

[An t-iasg]

Most people that feed with feeder fish will breed the fish themselves to ensure that no parasites are introduced to the main tank. If you have the space for a breeder tank, you could do that too. Fruitbat is one of our bichir fanatics. He could help you with bichir feeding.

If you're treating the 40 gallon with the medicine, follow the label directions for the length of treatment. If the fish don't look stressed, use the med for an additional week after you see the last spot. However, if you have never seen a spot in this tank, I wouldn't subject the fish to the meds for that long. I'd stop the med, but be ready to try the heat treatment if you do see spots.

When you say "glitter", that resembles another disease, also caused by a parasite -- velvet. Here's a link: http://www.aquariumpharm.com/disease/velvet.html
Does this look like what the black knife has? Heat would be a good treatment for this parasite also.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the great link, now I think it might be velvet. Since they are both parasites, will my ich treatment work for velvet also? Does it require any different treatment procedures? Thank you so much.

 

[Guest]

If you're treating the 40 gallon with the medicine, follow the label directions for the length of treatment. If the fish don't look stressed, use the med for an additional week after you see the last spot.

The label directions only call for 3 days of tretment, but I was under the impression that ich needed to be treated for at least a week? The fish don't looked stressed at all from the medication, but there are no spots on any of them in the 40 gallon tank either, so I can't use that as a benchmark. I want to make sure I run the medication for as long as it takes to make sure every last parasite is dead, so I guess I would rather err on the side of over treating the tank rather than having to do this again, but I'm still not sure how many days that would be.

 

[An t-iasg]

Three days of treatment isn't enough. The ich life cycle takes about a week, and that's at a temp of 87 degrees. Have you used the med for 3 days already? You could use it for another week to make sure. The velvet parasite is also killed by heat or the ich meds.

 

[Guest]

How long does the ich life cycle last (approximatly of course) at 81 degrees? They seem to be doing really well with the medication so I think running it for longer might be a better idea than adding to their stress by raising the temp. I don't even think my heater goes up to 87 degrees.

 

[An t-iasg]

At 81 degrees, the ich life cycle takes about one week. But remember that many parasites are at different life stages at once! (ewww!) So, since meds only work in the free-swimming stage, you'll have to use the meds for about a week, or at least 5 days, after you see that last spot. That hopefully will ensure that any cysts in the substrate that divide and then become free swimming will be killed by the meds before they can latch onto your fish again.

 

[Guest]

Yesterday was day 10 of treatment, so this morning I put my carbon filter element back in my Eclipe tank. Day 4 I took out all of my fake plants and ornaments because of staining and cleaned them, so I was planning on putting them back in today as well. My only concern is that my ornate birchir is looking pretty poor now from the treatment. Anything I can do to get things back to normal for him? I already did a 50% water change. Thanks again!

 

[An t-iasg]

I don't know what to tell you about a bichir, sorry. Fruitbat is another advisor who has lots of bichirs. I will see if I can get him over here

 

[Guest]

Don't bother. he died.

 

[Fruitbat]

Jeeeez.....

Sorry I didn't see this one sooner! It is quite unusual for a bichir to get 'ich'....less unusual for them to suffer from 'velvet'. The TC medication is basically useless against protozoan parasites like the ones that cause the two above-mentioned conditions (regardless of what the guy at the LFS told you). Tetracycline is an antibiotic that works on bacteria....NOT on protozoans.

Bichirs are somewhat sensitive to certain medications....as you've unfortunately found out the hard way. I'm really sorry to hear about your P. ornatipinnis. How are the other fish doing??

-Joe

 

[Guest]

Fortunatly the other 5 cichlids are doing great, but the pleco died as well. NO MORE LIVE FOOD EVER!!!!

 

[Fruitbat]

I learned the same lesson about live feeders many years ago....under similar circumstances and with similar results. Now the only time I use live feeders (my Phago loricatus - African Pike Characin, won't eat anything else) is after I've had them in a quarantine tank for two weeks.

-Joe