Star shaped moving critter - Page 4 - Aquarium Advice

Kurt_Nelson · 05-13-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumblebee1976

... Also, the filter is a non-sponge one with resins only and to change it you actually have to replace the whole thing. Changing it every fortnight is going to be very expensive and it is also not going to be that easy to move all the rock to get at the filter too often....

I think you're starting to possibly see that these type of aquariums aren't really suited for saltwater. In my opinion, they're really meant more for freshwater. I know... it's says "Marine", but hey... it's all marketing, right?

The small water capacity means that to keep your water quality good, frequent water changes will be required. If you put off water changes because it's hard to change the filters, then things aren't going to go well. Now if you have enough live rock, you don't need any "filters" at all because the rock will serve as a biological filter.

Regarding target feeding the sun corals, it's not that it's difficult - it's just that with such a small tank, the extra food that always gets sprayed about during target feeding will pollute the tank pretty quick. You can always take the coral out and put it in a bucket of tank water to feed it and put it back, but that's a real hassle and adds more stress to the coral.

Starting out with a small tank is rough. And starting out with one that's not really geared for saltwater makes it tougher. Don't get me wrong... I'm really not trying to discourage you, but just trying to point out that you've stacked the deck with the odds not really in your favor.

Oh... and I would imagine mushrooms would do just fine!

bumblebee1976 · 05-14-2009, 02:30 PM

Thanks Kurt - almost everybody I speak to is against the biorb for marines but I think it's because nobody really understands how the technology works. I have seen many instances of successful marine biorb keepers who have had good experiences as I have albeit only for a short time of keeping it. The filter has been designed with a simple system in mind, hence the water being bubbled up the tube and down through the high quality media to the filter cartridge. The ceramic media is the equivalent to the sponge in a filter to be honest, it's where the beneficial bacteria live. The biorb was designed by a marine biologist with extensive knowledge of keeping fish, and my experience has been that it works well, which is backed by numerous others with successful biorbs. If you don't mind me asking, have you actually tried one yourself or researched it? I do have live rock, that's why I haven't even noticed a cycle taking place. The rock I have is very mature and of good quality - it is keeping the params at 0 so far. The service kit doesn't prevent me from doing water changes at all, so I will be doing those and also look at the cycling article from Mike. Changing the service kit actually doesn't look that difficult now that I've spoken to Reef One, it just means putting the rock in the tank water I have extracted (in a bucket) while moving some pieces to the side and removing the filter. Thanks for your comments.

bumblebee1976 · 05-14-2009, 02:38 PM

Hi Mike - thanks for your reply, I will study the article on cycling so thanks for that. Reef One suggested fortnightly or monthly water changes, depending on stocking levels and monthly/6 weekly filter replacements again depending on stocking levels. My nitrates and the appearance of the tank will obviously help me decide how often to carry out the maintenance, but as yet there are no nitrates. Some people swear by infrequent water changes, it seems to depend on the individual setup and what works for each person varies too.
As a side point, please could you clarify whether you would recommend a pair of clown gobies. I have had an issue with the supplier of mine because one is harassing the other, leaving its fins nipped and its stomach sunken. I was advised initially it was a good idea and now I am being told it can be problematic, but as I understand it a pair will not work, although a group might. I would have preferred to have kept one on its own if I had known this was likely to happen!! Just wondered what you thought about this species. Once again thanks so much for your help.

Kurt_Nelson · 05-14-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumblebee1976

...The biorb was designed by a marine biologist with extensive knowledge of keeping fish, and my experience has been that it works well, which is backed by numerous others with successful biorbs. If you don't mind me asking, have you actually tried one yourself or researched it?...

Ahhh... I see that I should've just continued to bite my tongue and not butted in!

To answer your question, no... I haven't tried one, but yes... I understand what they are and how they work. Nothing really new there. Just old technology repackaged into a new format.

I'm glad to hear that water changes won't be a problem. The only reason I posted was because it sounded like you were thinking about skimping on maintenance ("Changing it every fortnight is going to be very expensive and it is also not going to be that easy to move all the rock to get at the filter too often.") and I didn't think you'd like the result of that. Anything that mechanically filters water will need to be rinsed often to keep your water parameters in check.

I think you're doing yourself a big disservice if you just blow off negative opinions of the biorb and chalk it up to "uninformed" people. But hey... it's your money. And with that said... good luck with your tank!

**melosu58** · 05-14-2009, 06:05 PM

LA says "It will rarely become aggressive towards other fish, but will fight with its own kind in smaller tanks."

bumblebee1976 · 05-15-2009, 09:27 AM

Thanks Mike - I will quote that to the lfs today, apart from the fact that it's my petrol money going back to return the fish plus I had to go back again last week because they overcharged me on my card! How much does it cost in reality to feed up a sick fish for them? I am a new customer who might have spent a small fortune in the future and they totally missold me so why should I take the cost?! When I say I will quote you btw I don't mean you personally!!!

Thanks for your message Kurt - I think there might be some confusion, what I meant originally was that I wasn't going to find it very easy to change the service kit (filter) every fortnight. The water changes are a different matter - I will be reading Mike's article on that in due course when I am ready to do the maintenance. Of course sponges need rinsing but you don't change them fortnightly, just rinse them surely? Mine is a non-sponge filter, the resins will not clog up like a sponge would so I can't see why fortnightly would be so necessary IMO. Actually it is newer technology and not just an under-gravel type filtration. It's perfectly fine, I appreciate all opinions it's just that I hear this one all the time! If I had experienced problems like I did when I had tropicals (with sponge filtration) then I would tend to agree with you but so far there have been no imbalances bar one slight glitch and I would say that shows the tank is healthy. I found the 'old school' filtration in my tropical tank never worked, but there were probably other factors going on at the time and of course tropicals are a different ball game. That said, my experience (and that of numerous others including professional setups) has been all good with the biorb so far so why would I want to ditch it and spend a small fortune on a massive setup I can't house?! I'm not blowing off the opinions, merely asking the basis on which they were said, and responding to that. To be honest the proof is surely in the pudding - my tank is healthy so I expect that it has been the right decision for me at the moment. If a complicated setup was feasible I would probably have done it but it isn't. I'm sure your tank is a hundred times more interesting than mine but this works for me so unless anything starts to go wrong I will be sticking with it.

bumblebee1976 · 05-15-2009, 09:31 AM

Mike - it has just occurred to me that I could offer to keep the smaller fish that is being picked on and return the larger, more aggressive one so that the shop would have no need for extended quarantining and feeding/risk of the fish dying. This means that I would have the risk but I see no reason why it wouldn't make a full recovery in a fairly empty tank if I could target feed it a little. What do you think? Also, this experience has taught me that if I am going to use this shop again, and it isn't the closest (but the range is brilliant) I should research fully before further purchases and not depend on their opinions.

**melosu58** · 05-15-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumblebee1976

I should research fully before further purchases and not depend on their opinions.

Great idea. As far as the smaller fish yes that sounds like a good idea. If he`s been picked on and battered pretty good you`ll need to make sure of pristine water conditions. He`ll need that to heal and not develope a secondary bacterial infection.

thincat · 05-15-2009, 11:11 AM

BB, read this on Fraging mushrooms. Most people hold them down either in a small tupperware with some rubble rock or with a rubberband onto a rubble rock.
Mushroom Propagation - Reefers Cafe Forums

thincat · 05-15-2009, 11:21 AM

[ "I also read somewhere that in the early days with the biorb if you change too much water etc if affects the bacteria colonies and makes the cycle take longer.']
The above statement is a myth.
Your bacteria grows in the lr and sand. The few that are in the water column do not affect the cycling of the tank. Since you already have fish in there the water changes would be very helpful to help them survive.