Unknown cichlid - please help identify

[RoK]

Got this guy/gal on the 12th and never figured out what it is. I think it may be of the Vieja genus. It was more black (sort of striped with grey as well) at the store but in my tank it's turned to this mainly greyish color. It is quite aggressive. Anyone seen these before and/or know the species?

 

[TCTFish]

I almost want to say that's a Texas cichlid, but not 100% sure.

 

[RoK]

Nope, it's not one of those but thanks for the reply.

 

[TCTFish]

Think you can get a better photo?...One without so much glare. Cichlids are hard to ID without seeing their scale patterns and colors. Try taking the photo without the tank lights on or without a flash. Cover the flash if you cannot deactivate it. Take the shot at an angle too. That will divert some of the flash back away from the main subject of the photo which can be easily cropped out. If the photos are a bit dark, it can still be manipulated to see patterns.

 

[RoK]

Ok, I think I'll try that tomorrow. thanks

 

[TCTFish]

I did break out with the huge FW atlas. The one splotch near the base of the tail is distinctive and found three species that bear a similar splotch (with or without other significant markings). All three are cichlasoma and are...

synspilus...red headed cichlid
temporalis, though very ???
guttulatum...gold cheek cichlid...this one appears to be the closest match.

I'll be able to be more sure with a more detailed photo of patterns (like other bars on the body)

 

[RoK]

Well, I tried. These are the best I got :? :
He darkened up a little, not as dark as in the store though. You can see the stripes better now, you can see he also has some stripes on the head.

You can somewhat see the green and blue in the fins in this one, there's also a little red. The gill is kinda open in this pic for some reason, which kind of gives off that he has a lot of red in that area but its not that much.

This one is pretty dark and I don't know how to make it look better. You have some kind of good image editing program?

 

[TCTFish]

Ah...much better photos even if the photo itself isn't the best. I'll download these to my computer and seek through the atlas in a bit. Gotta deal with dinner now...mmmm...I'm hungry too...LOL.

The number of bars of the striping on cichlids is a big factor when it comes to identifying them. You can have two fish that look identical to each other and if one has more or less bars, they (those who put these names to them) end up naming them a different species. Pain in the ass if you ask me...they're still practically the same damn fish...LOL.

 

[TCTFish]

BTW...the graphics software I use is Paint Shop Pro 8. I'm on the verge of getting the new version (10). I should have had it already. I'm lagging here...LOL.

 

[krap101]

i think it may be a wierd variation of a convict?

 

[RoK]

Well, to me, it really seems like it's got the shape and coloration of some species in the Vieja genus. I just can't figure out which.
My friend had one that was either a guttulata or zonata. I never could tell which, they look very similar in photos.
This one that I have does not look like the one he had, so I don't think it's either of those 2. I also don't think it's one of the "blackbelt" ones because of the multiple stripes and coloration.
I thought it might be Vieja fenestrata because they have the striping pattern but in the pics I've seen they have a very reddish colored head. Maybe I'll just have to see if he changes color when older.

 

[TCTFish]

Considering the number of bars and the splotch near the tail, shape and mouth position, these two species are the closest...

Cichlasoma fenestratum and again, the Cichlasoma guttulatum. The red in the fins seems to match the fenestratum, but I still lean towards the guttulatum.

 

[RoK]

Well, I just found this pic of a young blackbelt and it looks VERY similar to mine, although this one does have more red: http://www.cjexotics.com/images/blackbelt.jpg
I think it'll be much easier to tell when it gets older though.

 

[TCTFish]

The atlas I have (the large Axelrod atlas) doesn't have any juvenile photos of black belts...just a couple of adults. Better hope it's NOT a black belt...LOL. Great looking fish, but in my experience with them...cannot be housed with other fish at all when mature. Very demanding for their space. I've never seen a juvenile black belt with the exception of the link you provided. The black belts I've come into contact with have all been large adults. Customers would bring them in when they start to murder their fish and obviously bought elsewhere. I won't order fish like that to sell out of the store unless it's a special order. I see no reason to because then they all come back when they're monsters and no body wants them.

Anyway...

We have three possibilities here. As the fish grows a little more, it'll show more adult definition and can narrow it down to one. If the mid bar becomes more distinctive than the other bars as the fish grows, then you know it is a black belt. If not, then most likely a guttulatum. There is stil the possibility it could be a fenestratum. Guess now only time will tell.

 

[RoK]

Ok, thanks a lot! I do think that atlas may be a little outdated because I don't think they use Cichlasoma for those anymore. I'm pretty sure it's been changed to Vieja, that's how it is on fishbase.org anyway.
I have a LFS that takes fish. If it gets too aggressive, I can just give it to them.

 

[TCTFish]

The atlas is a bit outdated. The changing of names on fish is all too common and it seems once one atlas is updated it becomes quickly outdated again...LOL.