Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > General Aquarium Forums > DIY Projects
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 10-08-2005, 02:56 AM   #11
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madeira Island - Portugal
Posts: 36
Send a message via MSN to Ardeus
Lighting suplementing? It needs more light beyond direct sunlight? Meanwhile I'm going to find more info about ATS. Thanks.
__________________

__________________
Ardeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 04:49 AM   #12
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 6,015
Send a message via AIM to greenmaji
I personaly think my ATS thread has more detailed information about ATS then any source Ive found.. I have read the book Dynamic Aquaria the introduction of ATS usage.. Ive asked questions to an aquarist that is currently running an indoor ATS system on his 1850 gallon (roughly 7,000 liter) home aquarium..
an outdoor ATS for a 1,500,000 liter system would need to be roughly 430 square meters of surfase area, thats quite some roof space.. (Im making rough estamates from memory, my thread will have the information needed to build a system) The lighting requirements would be the hardest to estamate because of the natural sunlight being in the equasion.. it would need much less artifical light because of the natural sunlight (no area has 100% sunlight exposure each day)
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=56247
HTH
__________________

__________________
greenmaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2005, 01:03 AM   #13
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madeira Island - Portugal
Posts: 36
Send a message via MSN to Ardeus
I've been reading the thread and trying to adapt a few things to my original idea.

Since I've around 800 sq meters of roof around the tank I guess I can use simple direct sun light. The water will circle in open air on the roof with 5 cm height. The roof will be covered with wavy removable plastic mesh pads to give support for the algae to grow. The ondulating pattern not only will enlarge the surface available for the algae but will also create waves, although this must be tried out first.

Since I'm talking about a malawi community here, I believe there's a possibility the fish would be interested in cleaning at least some of the pads for me. That way I would take a few pads every other day, put them in the tank for a few days and bring them back to the roof. I don't think it would be a good idea to let the fish go to the roof once a week, lol.

The open air thing worries me cause it can work as an uncontrolled heater during summer and a freezer in the winter. Maybe a solution would be to have the roof mesh pads in white plastic during summer and in a black material that better captures heat during winter.

I must keep both initial and maintenance costs to a minimum to have any chance of doing this cause the income from this thing will be small.
__________________
Ardeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2005, 01:38 AM   #14
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Skyrmir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 522
Send a message via ICQ to Skyrmir Send a message via AIM to Skyrmir
I would have to guess if this is going to be above ground a major cost is going to be the tank walls themselves. They are going to need to be re-enforced concrete to be able to hold much depth, more depth thicker concrete. Also if your putting it above ground I would assume it's so you can view the fish from the sides. That's going to require careful design in the glass. I've seen it done with 3 sheets of inch thick plexiglass, but that was for a polar bear exhibit, so maybe it didn't need that much thickness just for the water.

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/tec...lassthickness/

That link is a bit complex on the math side, but it will let you figure out where to plug in your own numbers and figure out what thickness glass you need for the dimensions you want to get. It'll take some digging to find the calculations for plexiglass to compare with.

As for trying to keep with the roof water flow system, you might be able to rig up a holding tank before and after the roof flow for maintaining temperature. Heat the water a bit before letting it flow in the winter, and cooling for the water in the summer. Otherwise even the day/night cycle is going to create some eratic temperature swings. It would require a bit of creative plumbing, but it would most likely be easier to change the temperature on a small volume of water constantly, than to try and maintain the temperature constantly throughout the system. Even if not a holding tank, simply looping the pipes around or inside heaters/coolers to change the temperature as it flowed might work. Either way it will end up being energy intensive, but then locking the temperature for any water mass that size is going to take a lot of energy. Might want to find out how much Lake Malawi changes temperatures during the different seasons to know how big a swing can be tolerated.
__________________
Skyrmir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2005, 02:48 AM   #15
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madeira Island - Portugal
Posts: 36
Send a message via MSN to Ardeus
The tank at the end of the roof flow looks like a good idea. And I also remembered that controlling the amount of water being pumped to the roof may also control the temperature. With lower speeds at night (is a full stop possible?), not only the tank remains more termically isolated but also will prevent large amounts of CO2 coming from the algae on the roof to enter the tank.

I'm planning on having the tank running without fish for an year to make adjustments.

I was reading the article on glass thickness. Lot's of talking about the way different glasses crack. I recently posted a thread about "large scale catastrophe". I regret that title... you can imagine the images that came to my mind while reading that article. But the calculations are extremely usefull at this stage so I can have an idea of the costs.

I'm planning on having just two larger windows and not that large really, considering the tank is 30m x 20m x 2.5m. Around 7 meters long by 2 meters high. All the others will be much smaller.

The wall thickness for a 2.5m tank is within what's normal for exterior house walls around here. Traditionally houses have thick walls (sometimes nearing 1 meter).
__________________
Ardeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 03:37 AM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 6,015
Send a message via AIM to greenmaji
Algae does not create CO2.. at lights out it will consume O2 but it should be in reverse photoperiod from the tank normaly (this wont be possible with daylight unless you are a 3rd shift person.. LOL) When the ATS is running with light it will keep O2 past the saturation point in most cases..

A year? the ATS will not start up untill its under a bio-load.. so pumping water though it a year will likey just cost you a lot of energy.. maybe running it a while to get things stable.. like a few weeks or a month would be helpfull..

As far as design goes you might want to consider making the base a square.. it will make your life much easier in taking advantage of all the surfase area possible and being able to keep the height down (thus not needed as think a viewing panel (glass or acrylic) and still holding back the water)

I have no clue what your temperature is like there off of Portugal.. whats the average high and low temperature over there?
__________________
greenmaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005, 06:33 PM   #17
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madeira Island - Portugal
Posts: 36
Send a message via MSN to Ardeus
I have 2 possible locations and it's going to depend on the costs, revenues and support I can have in each place. As I said, I'm just at the beginning and I'm not sure I will find all the ressources I need. But I'm extremely persistent

One place is here In Madeira and the average temperatures here varie between 18 and 23.

If in the south of Portugal, the average temperatures will vary between 8 and 30.

About the algae... I had the idea that every plant will "breath" like any other organism taking O2 and releasing CO2 (burning sugar), while at the same time during daytime, would be taking CO2 and releasing O2 through photosynthesis. Do algae work differently?

http://www.biology-online.org/biolog.../about200.html

My idea of spending an year in testing was mainly to see how the temperature control would work through all the seasons and make the necessary adjustments.
__________________
Ardeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2005, 03:33 AM   #18
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 6,015
Send a message via AIM to greenmaji
What kind of livestock were you considering?
__________________
greenmaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2005, 05:17 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Madeira Island - Portugal
Posts: 36
Send a message via MSN to Ardeus
African cichlids, most likely a malawi community. I'm not interested in large fish or in having a food chain other than the fry that don't make it to adults.

But I'm open to suggestions.
__________________
Ardeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2005, 04:49 PM   #20
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 6,015
Send a message via AIM to greenmaji
what were your plans on lighting the tank? solar tube lighting maybe?
__________________

__________________
greenmaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stocking! ...yeah I know..there are 5,000,000 stock threads Jarred Darque Saltwater Reef Aquaria 6 10-04-2007 10:35 AM
need formula to calculate gallons/litres for this tank shape Bubble_B0y Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 6 05-24-2006 08:37 AM
how many fish for how many litres of water? scott764 Saltwater Reef Aquaria 1 06-12-2005 02:19 PM
10,000 or 12,000 K ? klg1824 Saltwater Reef Aquaria 6 02-22-2004 09:12 PM
How do I find out how many litres/gallons in my tank? ( 8 ) eiGhtBaLL Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 5 08-18-2003 10:05 AM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.