1.500.000 litres - Aquarium Advice

Ardeus · 10-07-2005, 02:04 PM

For now it's just an idea...

How can one handle the filtration, aeration, lighting, temperature, Ph, etc of 1.500.000 litres of freshwater?

I'm trying to calculate building and maintenance costs and to understand the technical difficulties.

Skyrmir · 10-07-2005, 03:07 PM

Look into having a pool built, subtract the cost of pool chemicals, add the cost of fish/food/plants. The majority of the costs are going to depend on who builds pools in your area, and what your local geography is like. It's harder to build pools in some area's because the ground water makes them want to float until they're full of water. Large boulders tend to slow things down too.

Lighting for something that large is usually natural. It'd take a building just to house that much water.

Why such a large size by the way? Looking to build a 1/4 scale New Orleans?

Ardeus · 10-07-2005, 04:52 PM

The difference to a normal 30m x 20m x 2.5 m pool would be mainly the presence of a few acrilic windows and the fact that it would be above the ground. But what about heat control and filtration? Is it feasible to have the water circulating over the outside buiding's roof and let algae grow massively? And cover the roof with some bacterial friendly substrate so that algae and bacteria can thrive?

krap101 · 10-07-2005, 05:01 PM

what about mosquitos?

Skyrmir · 10-07-2005, 06:05 PM

There might be a few problems with circulating the water over the roof. For one the temperature would be hard to control and in spots could easily reach up near boiling. There's also the problem of weight. Water is about 8lbs per gallon, plus all the piping and containment, plus the weight of the bacteria/algea/mulm buildup. That would require a seriously strong roof to be anywhere near safe. Not what you'd find on a typical house.

A pool heater would most likely do the job better, also as far as nitrifying bacteria goes, plants and surface area are the most useful things, so there wouldn't really be a reason to lift the water like that. Just a big pool filter with lots of surface area.

Ardeus · 10-07-2005, 06:58 PM

Moskitos make nice fish food, let them come

Skymir, you're saying the rocks and gravel in the tank would be enough for the nitrifying bacteria? It would be enough to keep the water with good aeration and circulating, while permanently making water changes from a well?

I thought about using the roof as a large filter that would also help to refill the water with oxygen. And I was thinking about something around 10cms high of water circulating above. But the heating will be a problem, you're right about that too. In the region, air temperature can go as high as 40 deg celcius (above 100F) and around 0 during winter.

I had thought about a piping system distributing the water that returns from filter at different points in the tank to avoid dead areas.

Skyrmir · 10-07-2005, 10:32 PM

The filters are going to be the bacteria hang outs, along with every surface they can attach to. Also the return feeds to the tank are easy places to create aeration. In something that size though, the surface area of the pond is going to create a huge gas exchange as long as the water is moving. For something that size most people use fountains or rock waterfalls for extra aeration.

Just as any tank, the bacteria will have to be built up over time...or a serious investment in Bio-Spira stock hehe.

Are you seriously thinking of building something this size above ground? With the temp swings in your area the only way to keep tropicals would be to house the whole thing indoors. You can only heat so much during the winter, eventually mother nature is gonna win and it will freeze or at least drop far enough to kill tropical fish.

Ardeus · 10-07-2005, 11:58 PM

Yes, it has to be above ground, cause I have a house around it and can't have underground rooms. But as all the tank walls will be interior (the tank will be surrounded by a house), termic isolation will be easier.

It seems that controlling temperature is one of the most important issues here.

The maximum temperature variation during a single day can be around 20 degrees. But this amount of water won't follow the outside temperature fast, winter or summer.

So what I need to worry about are the average temperatures. During summer, if it gets too high, the tank's roof can be covered with white, letting some diffuse light in.

I'm also trying to figure out an easy and not expensive way to control the sun light it gets as well as isollating the tank's roof termically.

As for heating during the winter, I think that it's possible to have a main system based on solar collectors (the government pays part of their initial cost here) and another extra form of heating, like the pool heating you suggested. This has to be combined with the good termic isolation, specially in the tanks roof.

I was thinking if my initial idea of making the water run all the way through the house's roof couldn't be adapted to help heating in colder days. A way to automate this would be to have the water temperature checked when entering and when exiting the roof. If the water was colder after leaving, the pumps would stop sending water through the roof.

My initial idea was to have the water going through a 50 meter course, 3-5 inches high, around 5 meters wide. This could be used both as filter and heat control. For instance, covering the roof area with a white material during summer and black during winter.

Ardeus · 10-08-2005, 01:29 AM

I'm also thinking about how to handle deseases. I can't see many alternatives other then trying to prevent them... beyond that, nature just will follow its course. There will be times when hundreds of fish will be wiped out. Can [acronym:d8f5c6a09c="Ultra Violet"]UV[/acronym:d8f5c6a09c]'s be used in a tank this size?

greenmaji · 10-08-2005, 01:41 AM

it sounds like you had a [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb] idea up there.. there are calulated flows and surfase area for a given volume of water in such cases and systems have been built with oudoor [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb] filtration.. so it can be done.. there usually involves some lighting suplementing for outdoor [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb] systems, but not nearly the amount of artifical light needed for a indoor [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb].. [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Hope this helps (or) Happy to help"]HTH[/acronym:bd6cd402eb]

10-07-2005, 02:04 PM	#1
Ardeus Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira Island - Portugal Posts: 34	1.500.000 litres For now it's just an idea... How can one handle the filtration, aeration, lighting, temperature, Ph, etc of 1.500.000 litres of freshwater? I'm trying to calculate building and maintenance costs and to understand the technical difficulties.

10-07-2005, 05:01 PM	#4
krap101 Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Roscoe, IL Posts: 3,825 Images: 12	what about mosquitos? __________________ Wizards first rule-People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true. Wizards second rule-The greatest harm can result from the best intentions. Wizards third rule-Passion rules reason. Wizards fourth rule-There is magic in forgiveness the magic to heal! In the forgiveness you grant, and more so in the forgiveness you receive. Wizards fifth rule-Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie. Wizards sixth rule-The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason. Wizards seventh rule-Life is the future, not the past Wizards eighth rule-Deserve victory. Wizards ninth rule-Contradictions don't exist, in whole or in part.

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10-07-2005, 03:07 PM	#2
Skyrmir Aquarium Advice FINatic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 510 Images: 9	Look into having a pool built, subtract the cost of pool chemicals, add the cost of fish/food/plants. The majority of the costs are going to depend on who builds pools in your area, and what your local geography is like. It's harder to build pools in some area's because the ground water makes them want to float until they're full of water. Large boulders tend to slow things down too. Lighting for something that large is usually natural. It'd take a building just to house that much water. Why such a large size by the way? Looking to build a 1/4 scale New Orleans?

10-07-2005, 04:52 PM	#3
Ardeus Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira Island - Portugal Posts: 34	The difference to a normal 30m x 20m x 2.5 m pool would be mainly the presence of a few acrilic windows and the fact that it would be above the ground. But what about heat control and filtration? Is it feasible to have the water circulating over the outside buiding's roof and let algae grow massively? And cover the roof with some bacterial friendly substrate so that algae and bacteria can thrive?

10-07-2005, 06:05 PM	#5
Skyrmir Aquarium Advice FINatic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 510 Images: 9	There might be a few problems with circulating the water over the roof. For one the temperature would be hard to control and in spots could easily reach up near boiling. There's also the problem of weight. Water is about 8lbs per gallon, plus all the piping and containment, plus the weight of the bacteria/algea/mulm buildup. That would require a seriously strong roof to be anywhere near safe. Not what you'd find on a typical house. A pool heater would most likely do the job better, also as far as nitrifying bacteria goes, plants and surface area are the most useful things, so there wouldn't really be a reason to lift the water like that. Just a big pool filter with lots of surface area.

10-07-2005, 06:58 PM	#6
Ardeus Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira Island - Portugal Posts: 34	Moskitos make nice fish food, let them come Skymir, you're saying the rocks and gravel in the tank would be enough for the nitrifying bacteria? It would be enough to keep the water with good aeration and circulating, while permanently making water changes from a well? I thought about using the roof as a large filter that would also help to refill the water with oxygen. And I was thinking about something around 10cms high of water circulating above. But the heating will be a problem, you're right about that too. In the region, air temperature can go as high as 40 deg celcius (above 100F) and around 0 during winter. I had thought about a piping system distributing the water that returns from filter at different points in the tank to avoid dead areas.

10-07-2005, 10:32 PM	#7
Skyrmir Aquarium Advice FINatic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 510 Images: 9	The filters are going to be the bacteria hang outs, along with every surface they can attach to. Also the return feeds to the tank are easy places to create aeration. In something that size though, the surface area of the pond is going to create a huge gas exchange as long as the water is moving. For something that size most people use fountains or rock waterfalls for extra aeration. Just as any tank, the bacteria will have to be built up over time...or a serious investment in Bio-Spira stock hehe. Are you seriously thinking of building something this size above ground? With the temp swings in your area the only way to keep tropicals would be to house the whole thing indoors. You can only heat so much during the winter, eventually mother nature is gonna win and it will freeze or at least drop far enough to kill tropical fish.

10-07-2005, 11:58 PM	#8
Ardeus Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira Island - Portugal Posts: 34	Yes, it has to be above ground, cause I have a house around it and can't have underground rooms. But as all the tank walls will be interior (the tank will be surrounded by a house), termic isolation will be easier. It seems that controlling temperature is one of the most important issues here. The maximum temperature variation during a single day can be around 20 degrees. But this amount of water won't follow the outside temperature fast, winter or summer. So what I need to worry about are the average temperatures. During summer, if it gets too high, the tank's roof can be covered with white, letting some diffuse light in. I'm also trying to figure out an easy and not expensive way to control the sun light it gets as well as isollating the tank's roof termically. As for heating during the winter, I think that it's possible to have a main system based on solar collectors (the government pays part of their initial cost here) and another extra form of heating, like the pool heating you suggested. This has to be combined with the good termic isolation, specially in the tanks roof. I was thinking if my initial idea of making the water run all the way through the house's roof couldn't be adapted to help heating in colder days. A way to automate this would be to have the water temperature checked when entering and when exiting the roof. If the water was colder after leaving, the pumps would stop sending water through the roof. My initial idea was to have the water going through a 50 meter course, 3-5 inches high, around 5 meters wide. This could be used both as filter and heat control. For instance, covering the roof area with a white material during summer and black during winter.

10-08-2005, 01:29 AM	#9
Ardeus Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira Island - Portugal Posts: 34	I'm also thinking about how to handle deseases. I can't see many alternatives other then trying to prevent them... beyond that, nature just will follow its course. There will be times when hundreds of fish will be wiped out. Can [acronym:d8f5c6a09c="Ultra Violet"]UV[/acronym:d8f5c6a09c]'s be used in a tank this size?

10-08-2005, 01:41 AM	#10
greenmaji Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: May 2005 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 5,937	it sounds like you had a [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb] idea up there.. there are calulated flows and surfase area for a given volume of water in such cases and systems have been built with oudoor [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb] filtration.. so it can be done.. there usually involves some lighting suplementing for outdoor [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb] systems, but not nearly the amount of artifical light needed for a indoor [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Algal Turf Scrubber"]ATS[/acronym:bd6cd402eb].. [acronym:bd6cd402eb="Hope this helps (or) Happy to help"]HTH[/acronym:bd6cd402eb]