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Old 05-25-2006, 08:24 AM   #11
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it does a little more (not much) than just offer a better look to the tank, they do offer a small amount of protection, when placing a tank against a hardsurface it acts like a little buffer, but being a little cautious with the tank is usually the best protection.

the top frame actually does add a bit of structial strength to larger tanks, where a center brace is needed. the center brace will keep the water from pushing the front, back panes out (also called bowing) and help hold the tank together. for the record the top actually does add stength the bottom one is mostly for looks.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:53 PM   #12
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a plastic strip, even though it is angle, will not add any strength to the top at all.
with the bottom the only buffering agent in the equation would be the silicon holding the strip on as they are all hard surfaces barr the glue. As stated, caution is the best protection.
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Old 05-28-2006, 11:42 AM   #13
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Old 05-28-2006, 03:54 PM   #14
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Thanks for all the replies everyone. For the record the tank has been sitting full of water on my back patio (on some indoor outdoor carpet) for over a day testing for leaks. So far so good.

Lepomis, thanks for the link. Only $1.38 for the frame, and $15 to ship. I think I will just use it without it.
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Old 05-28-2006, 06:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JProx
i have never seen a steel stand not support the center of the tank. the furthest point away from any supporting beams. Any commerically made stand (wood, steel, etc) will not have a plank for the tank to sit on, instead just a lip usually about 1/2" for the tank to sit on.

the reason styrofoam does not work on tanks larger than 15 gallons is because of the of total weight of the tank, exceeds the stryfoam's ability to compress and flex, its just compressed. if we dealing with a 10gallon tank and a plank of 1inch styrofoam it should help equalize the downward forces and help the tank find a level plane, within reason. but anything larger than 15gallons; lets say for a 55gallon tank the thickness of the styrofoam needed for 1/16" equalization is massive, somewhere in the ballpark of 5and 5/8" thick. wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to use a couple of shims on the stand and skip the myth ?
Much of the above is incorrect. Firstly, you must not have looked at many steel stands is you have never seen one with centre unsupported. I have yet to see one that does.That includes ones I have fabricated myself. Steel is seldom straight. Even square tubing, which is generally better than structural members such as angle iron and channel iron, is rarely straight for any length. In addition, welding deforms steel. I have been fabricating with steel for 25 years, and have had to deal with this in every case.
Not all commercial wooden tank stands are open on the top. If we accept that MDF or HDF can be classed as wood products, they generally have a solid top. A solid top also strengthens the stand strucrure, whether it is necessary to carry the weight or not.
The purpose of styro is not to aid in leveling the tank, only for absorbing discrepencies in flatness. Contrary to what you are stating, the styro will compress until the entire edge is supported. I have 4 frameless tanks (30gals) on steel stands, and the styro (3/4") has compressed on the ends where necessary and the entire bottom edge is supported. You do not want the styro to flex.
Shimming the stand has nothing to do with making the top edge or plate flat, only in making it level. Styro will not make tank, on an unleveled stand, level. That is not it's purpose. It is only there to absorb discrepencies in flatness, and weight distribution. A tank could probably be supported only on the ends if the ends were level and there was no flexing. Still, it would be bad practice.
You are entitled to your opinion, but please, refrain from stating an opinion as fact. Much of what you stated is untrue.
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Old 05-28-2006, 09:06 PM   #16
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Much of the above is incorrect. Firstly, you must not have looked at many steel stands is you have never seen one with centre unsupported. I have yet to see one that does.That includes ones I have fabricated myself. Steel is seldom straight. Even square tubing, which is generally better than structural members such as angle iron and channel iron, is rarely straight for any length. In addition, welding deforms steel. I have been fabricating with steel for 25 years, and have had to deal with this in every case.
Not all commercial wooden tank stands are open on the top. If we accept that MDF or HDF can be classed as wood products, they generally have a solid top. A solid top also strengthens the stand strucrure, whether it is necessary to carry the weight or not.
The purpose of styro is not to aid in leveling the tank, only for absorbing discrepencies in flatness. Contrary to what you are stating, the styro will compress until the entire edge is supported. I have 4 frameless tanks (30gals) on steel stands, and the styro (3/4") has compressed on the ends where necessary and the entire bottom edge is supported. You do not want the styro to flex.
Shimming the stand has nothing to do with making the top edge or plate flat, only in making it level. Styro will not make tank, on an unleveled stand, level. That is not it's purpose. It is only there to absorb discrepencies in flatness, and weight distribution. A tank could probably be supported only on the ends if the ends were level and there was no flexing. Still, it would be bad practice.
You are entitled to your opinion, but please, refrain from stating an opinion as fact. Much of what you stated is untrue.
I don't have as many as 25 yrs experience, but being a qualified fabricator myself (engineer - fabrication stream) I can vouch this post is 100% correct.
I really do find it odd however that braces are not put under the centre of the tank.
even though I have a 12mm base on my 100gallon, i would not be putting the 60+ kg's of rock, sand substrate 350kg's of water etc on a steel stand with no central support weither it had styro or not. But that is just my presonal preference. Overkill is better then underkill imo.
The only stand I have seen with central support is this one....

which was custom made with 50mm RHS, and heavily supports the underside of the tank as it is 3 foot wide and in excess of 440 US gallons.

alot of claims have been made in this thread which, quite logically, are untrue, I hope people read the entire thread and not just skim the surface as they might just end up in trouble with their tanks and furnishings.

Matt
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Old 05-29-2006, 01:09 AM   #17
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Thanks for the support DeFeKt. Actually, your point about an unsupported span, is agood one. However, whether it would be necessary, would depend on the length of the span, the choice of material, and whether the weight needed to be evenly spread to the bottom for distribution over the floor. So, we could change from 2" x 2" tubing to 2" x 3" to span further, or we could use a lighter walled 2" x 2" if we are adding extra supports. In the latter case the overall weight could possibly be less and still be stronger overall. the one caveat is that everytime you add a piece, you are liable to get some deflection or warping, especially in welded construction. Styro would help, if the frame was otherwise level.
By the way, that is a very nice tank.
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Old 05-29-2006, 01:50 AM   #18
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and heavy to mate,
took 7 of us to lift it through the door, out onto the balcony so it could be picked up by a crane.
he had to have it built inside his house , but without thinking about the overall weight it will be putting on the 100mm concrete pad he eventually sold his unit and bought a ground level house just so he could fill it. sump is 110+ gallons in itself. (Credits go to Chuckmeister from PCF)

Quote:
So, we could change from 2" x 2" tubing to 2" x 3" to span further, or we could use a lighter walled 2" x 2" if we are adding extra supports
In the above example, I would opt for a thicker walled 2x2 and run colder welds.
I've found hotter is not nessicarily better. I prefer to run a little colder and use more wire(mig). It creates a little bit more cleanup but the advantage is less warping with a just as strong weld. more so the case with aluminium.
Using an example of a 6foot long x 1 1/2 foot wide tank i would have 4 legs supporting front and back (8 combined) whereas it probably only needs 6 combined, but like I said, thats just my overkill.
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Old 05-29-2006, 10:14 AM   #19
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My experience with MIG has been that it pulls much more than stick, and a lot more thought needs to go into holding the material in place, to counteract the pulling. I tend to overkill also,lol. With regard to the frame in the picture, weld strength is not so much of a concern, because the welds aren't really taking the weight, which is good design.
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