250w mh = 250w mh (ballast?)

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

justDIY

Aquarium Advice Addict
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,227
Location
Earth
well, I've educated myself on nearly all aspects of fluorescent lighting, but HID seems to be another ball-park entirely, so I need some tips from those who've done it already!

I have a real bad 'itch' to have an open-top tank, to try growing emersed plants as well as increase O2 exchange with the atmosphere

fluorescent, being soooo very difuse doesn't seem well-intended for this purpose, since the higher the lights above the tank, the more light spills onto the walls / floor / anywhere but into the tank

so I was hoping to cook up some sort of HID fixture with a 'tight' spot-light-like reflector to put most of the light into the tank, even with the light mounted 2 - 2.5 ft above it

I found a place online that sells a 250watt mh ballast kit for $46, which is the cheapest I've found anywhere for a mh ballast (core and coil design)

http://www.lightingcloseout.com/product_detail.cfm?ProductID=42&CategoryID=3

Is this ballast suitable to run an Iwasaki(sp?) Super-Daylight 6500k bulb?

I've also noted the Iwasaki bulb varies A LOT in price, some sites have it for around $60-80, others want nearly $200 for the 250w with mogul base

also, is it true these bulbs only last a year??? or is that only for the radiation that corals need to grow ... I plan on just using it with freshwater plants/fish ... I'd hate to have to buy a new $80 bulb every year - ouchies!

other than DIY, is there anyway to get into Daylight* MH for under $200? Sure I can buy a 175watt mh flood light for $75, but it's only like 4100k, which looks awful under water (been there, done that)

what about taking that 4100k floodlight, and putting it behind a piece of blue-tinted glass ... not a heavy tint, just enough to soak up some of the red and green light?

thanks
glm
 
You need to match the ballast wattage with the bulb wattage.

The MH bulbs being to really lose spectrium after about 1 year. They will slowly dim down and lose specitrum after that time frame.

You really should replace your florecent bulbs every 6-9 months. So its not that big of a difference really.

Look at www.hellolights.com if you have not yet. I think what you want is a pendant reflector.
 
so, "any" 250 watt mh ballast will run "any" 250 watt mh bulb?

what is all this jazz about m58, m59, m138, pulse start, probe start, cwr, cvr, etc?

http://www.hellolights.com/25methalretk.html
with the iswakai bulb would get me into MH for about $160

if the bulb is ruined after a year, is there much point in going electronic, which claims "up to" 25% longer bulb life?

http://www.hellolights.com/25methalbalk.html
would cost nearly $240 with bulb!

* The premade pendants they have there are nice, but nearly $300 for a single 250 watt - it's probably worth it, but still too much for me

----
I think it was GE's website or somewhere, but they recommended maintaining a high bulb temperature and a low ballast temperature, to maintain color, bulb life and ballast life ... does this sound right?

what is a "high" temperature for a bulb?

if I'm remote-mounting the ballast several feet from the bulb, and the bulb will be 18 to 30 inches above the tank, does it really need a fan (assuming a metal enclosure)?

thanks for taking the time on these questions
glm
 
OK, I am by no means an expert on MH...still learning. Here are a few things I've found out that might help you out some though. The Iwasaki bulbs will fire and run on a mercury vapor ballast. Advance makes one that'll work for $50 or a little less. Any MH ballast won't fire any bulb. There are some differences in the way they start...pulse, probe, ect... I don't remember the exact differences, but I think I can find the site where I read about all that...I'll post it if I can find it. AFAIK, the electronic ballasts will fire most any bulb. I think they're worth the extra money as you are supposed to get better bulb life and less power consumption with them. The Blueline ballasts will give you about the same output as a core/coil ballast with less power consumption. The Icecaps will give higher output than the core/coil with about the same power consumption. Aquatictech.com has the Icecaps on sale...click the "Internet Specials" link on their home page. The Bluelines are available from Champion Lighting. To concentrate the light, you'll want the bell shaped pendant. I'm sure you're familiar with the ones I talking about. I think that would be an easy DIY once you found some enclosures to use as pendants. Hope this helps some.
 
ok, so I need to find a inexpensive source for 250watt mercury vapor ballast and a mogul socket ... and then buy the bulb from online, and a few hours browsing shops looking for a reflector and presto, mh for under $100

great tip timbo, thanks a lot
 
I've had good luck using white painted aluminum for reflectors. I get it from a shop that sells supplies for race cars. I usually get a 4'x10' sheet. If you have access to a sheet metal break, it's really easy to turn out a nice looking reflector. If not, perhaps you could cut it and mark where you want the bends made. Then take it to a sheet metal shop and have them break it for you. Parabolic reflectors average $25-40 on the net...I pay $41 for a whole sheet of aluminum. I'm also wondering, if you wanted to go with a bell type pendant to concentrate the light better, is there some kind of aluminum or stainless container that you could cut down to use as a reflector.
 
yea, I had planned on using a round (ish) metal wastepaper basket as the reflector ... I saw several at Bed Bath and Beyond that were steel / aluminum and very shiny on the inside ... some even had a pebbled effect which would help diffuse the light

my other alternative is to make one of those horizontal pendant boxes out of wood, and use an aluminum reflector inside, using like 1/4" stand-offs along with some fiberglass insulation between the reflector and the 'box' to help keep the wood safe

finding the "cheap" ballast refrenced in these old articles is becoming a challenge ... the one indicated as costing ~$30 now seems to be around $80 ... and the $50 model I can't find for under $100 ... I guess that's inflation for ya ;)
 
okie ...

I had originally linked to that ballast in an earlier post ;)

I didn't see an H37 designator on it, so I wasn't sure it would run the Iwasaki I guess I'll call and ask

I'll be going into my office later today, and will try calling some local stores too, maybe one of them has one laying around or something

------
I noticed that I can get a 175 watt mercury vapor fixture for $30 (outdoor security light) ... but a 250 watt fixture costs $200+ ... I was hoping to find a complete outdoor fixture which I could just gut the ballast and socket out of ... but no such luck
------

thanks for all your help logan!
 
IMO I would not try to go too cheap...The MH setup that I posted, states at the bottom to do at your own risk...he he

I should have posted that it was only for reference as to how cheap you could do it...but, for only a few dollars more per fixture, you can get a true MH ballast and not run the risk of blowing anything and be more energy efficient..

The link that loganj put on here is very interesting and good prices.. I wish there was a discount site for the correct bulbs... :D
 
Ebay has a good bit of MH stuff. I missed 2 Blueline 10,000k 175w bulbs by $2 yesterday...they went for $77. Aquatictech.com still has the ad for the Icecaps for $109 for the 175w and $118 for the 250w. I have to wonder if this wouldn't be a better way to go even though it requires a bit more initial investment. You get to a point on this stuff where cheap is just that...cheap, as in low quality. I'm sure the Advance and Magnatek ballasts are good, but are they really that much cheaper than the electronics? According to what I have read, the Iwasakis will fire on most MH ballasts. That would require some more research though as we all know you can't believe it just because it's printed :mrgreen: . In a recent discussion with Kevin about MH lighting, he expressed the opinion that coral growth might be better under the 6500's, but that coloration would be better under 10,000k bulbs. I would rather have a little slower growth rate and better color. I expect the 6500's or even 5500's would do very well over plants though. If you get MH ballasts, you'll have more versatility as far as which bulbs you use. If you went with the MV ballasts, you're stuck using the Iwasakis. Some dilemma....
 
good point ... electronic ballasts make a BIG difference in the quality and quanity of light given by fluorescent bulbs, due to a higher operating frequency (seems brighter to the eye because there is less "off" time between pulses) ... the same probably holds true for electronic mh ballasts as well

too bad I missed that Monday sale, maybe they'll have a similar deal next Monday as well

-----

I don't forsee any coral in my aquaria future, so it's just freshwater fish and plants I'm looking to grow... which gives more latitude as far as the "quality" of the light - as long as it's bright enough the plants should grow ... I thought 5000k was nice untill I saw how much nicer 6700k looked ... I wonder what 8500k would be like ... maybe too much blue for freshwater?
 
Not sure on MH...I have an 8800k PC on one of the coral tanks and I can't tell the difference in it and a 10,000k.
 
hrmm ... so much for doing this project the weekend after next

I ordered my ballast from lightingcloseout - it should get here next wednsday or thursday

I tried to order my bulb from reefgeek but they're closed ... so I tried hellolights and they're closed... so that means it won't get ordered till monday and won't arrive till the monday after unless I upgrade shipping

-----

at least I've got my PC lights to work on
 
diy is great!

lighting seems to be ideal for DIY since it's SO overpriced to buy pre-made stuff ... but finding the right combination of pieces, parts and the know-how to wire it up is the trade-off I guess ... since I'm not so busy that my time is actually "valuable", I can 'invest' it in building stuff and save a big dime or two along the way!

-----

lol ... if I can build it, I will, to a point at least ... sometimes mass-manufactored stuff is hands down better in almost every regard then anything that could be diy'd (heaters and pumps for example) ... that stuff I leave to the big corporations

-----

oh, i forgot I've got a stand to build and a tank to move (just need to evict 4 more goldfish) ... so I should be busy enough for this upcoming weekend, and the one after ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom