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Old 07-21-2005, 12:12 PM   #101
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i thought you were quite clear in expressing the scientific nature of the book, and in no way insulting to anyone, least of all me. i could be mistake reguarding Green though, but i have said worse things to him in the last couple of weeks, lol.

i do enjoy your posts, even though most of them have torn my ideas and conclusions to pieces, but thats only natural given my limited real world experience in the subject, and have never been insulted.

and again thank you for continous efforts to educate me espially in this subject. to quote a famous radio talk show host ... there are no degrees in this field because the learning never stops, not sure if actually applies at all, but its a good quote and its sad it can't be slipped into a common conversation. (i will kudos anyone who can tell me who has said it.)

thanks again ash, i do appreicate your help.
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Old 07-21-2005, 07:18 PM   #102
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No, thank you, like I said before ,I enjoy talking about this topic very much. I hope the book answers a lot of questions, I know it did for me.
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Old 07-21-2005, 07:46 PM   #103
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I really dont think at any point I felt that my intelligence has been insulted by anyone posting in this thread. Regarding the book, it did seem that you were making it out to be nearly unintelligable even if it was just some areas of the book, when it comes to Quantum Physics and the characteristics of the universe seems really off topic from the sounds of it but Im sure he must have had a reason to discuss it.. If there is some information that isnt tied up until the end of the book, it will be a little frustrating but Ill have to see when it gets here how the information is tied up in the concluding portion of the book.. And thanks again for the discussion.. even if you feel it has been more enjoyable for you..
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:42 PM   #104
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hey green, i was doing some research on lighting, and stumbled across this, it should have more than enough power for a 3 sq ft scrubber, and i have not seen anything this cheap before for the wattage.

http://www.insidesun.com/index.php?a...=2&prevstart=0

only bad thing is it might be hard to find replacement bulbs locally, but again that website has many bulbs listed and all are pretty cheap (compared to regular MH) also only having to replace the bulb every 2-3yrs, this isn't that much an issue. i guess a lot of people in europe, don't use MH because of their expense there, and instead use MV (murcury vaper) or Hi-pressure Sodium. Sodium lamps are some of the most energy effiecient bulbs in the world, on average a 100watt Hi-press sodium only costs 26 bucks yearly, firing at 12hrs a day, i have had a fixture in my backyard for years, and have enjoyed the savings. their MH section is pretty reasonably priced too.
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:48 PM   #105
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JProx.. How can you find out what color temperature (kelvin) the High Pressure Sodium bulbs are? I would like to stay in the 5000-6500K range and I dont see the K rating for the High Pressure Sodium bulbs.. I am able to find smaller ballasts and bulbs for the smaller project as well but I dont know how hot it runs (if its super effecient as you say it must run cool, hot = ineffecent), how hot does your floodlight bulb get? Is it really going to be cheaper then buiding a lightstrip with a WH7 ($40)+ the endcaps and bulbs (the bulbs are cheap on e-bay and other sorces im not sure what I would use) not to mention the WH7 is a super flexable ballast it will run anything from regular florecent lamps, VHO, CF, T5 and much more.. the High Pressure Sodium ballast is only going to run the HPS bulb .. It sounds really nice though the lower KWH usage but Im not sure how it actually does that.
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:55 PM   #106
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well your not over looking it, i can say that much. the site doesn't list the exact K rating, since the bulbs are meant for plant lighting, and term 'suitable for general plant growth' or 'suitable for the flowering/fruit period' is enough to sell the product.
5k - 6500 is suitable for general growth, and anything lower than 5k is considered a red bulb, and meant to be used during the flowering/fruiting period, to stagger growth of leaves and roots and force the plant to put that energy to fruit production.

what the site does list is where the bulbs have their peak output in the light spectrum. 5k-6500 falls into the blue, green, and violet specturm so the listing of the bulb will state that. like this one - http://www.insidesun.com/index.php?a...=6&prevstart=0

i do realize this can be a bit of a gamble but lighting requirements for plants (above and below water) and coral don't differ that much (expect the demanded use of actinics) but for the few people that will go the MH way this is very cheap alternitive and will achieve very similiar results.

i understand all to well how effecienty works, and power out over power in, heat is wasted power, etc. and no light source is 100% effecient, leds are the closest at 98% of engery in, is made into light, and when they start rolling out Full spectrum leds in the next 3-10yrs look out as they are going to replace everything on the market today geared toward aquarium lighting. however HPS bulbs do get warm, warm enough to stop you from touching them while in operation, but not as hot as a regular light bulb, or MH. the actual fixture i have in my backyard is made completely of plastic if that tells you anything. Mercury Vapor runs cooler than HPS lamps but they do cost a little more to operate annualry, i beleive its about a 4dollar increase (yearly) (i have a 250watt MV floodlight hanging over my garage).

well at 75bucks for a complete system (bulb included) that should last well over 3yrs without any color indexing problems its tough to turn down, you do get more wattage than a WH7, and it only uses 1 bulb, replacement bulbs run about 40-60 bucks, but they do last for the minimium of 3yrs (probably much longer) with the regular florescent bulbs you will have to replace them every 8-12months.

Mathmatical conslusion-
if you use 4 bulbs and daylight bulbs at my local HomeDepot run 7+ a bulb, and replace them once a year, that will be 28bucks.
in 3yrs it will be 84 bucks.
if the HPS bulb runs 60 bucks, 84-60 = 24 dollar savings,
lets say endcaps are 3bucks a peice 3 x 8(number of needed caps) = 24
40bucks (WH7) + 24(caps) +28(bulbs) = 92bucks
total price to get into a HPS system today 75bucks.
and you will save 24 every 3 yrs, plus the difference in annual running costs.

i don't know if its better for you to make the switch or not since the wattage of both systems is close, but using math you will pay more to keep a florescent system running over an HPS. only bad thing is having to find bulbs locally but 1 bulb = 250watts, just as powerful as MH systems but cheaper.

i am probably going to go with ODNO if i can find a cheap elec. ballast or HPS system, when it comes time to worry about lighting,
still no word on my book yet, arg! 3rd party sellers on amazon, i will never do that again.
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Old 07-24-2005, 05:27 PM   #107
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I think I just figured out the effecencey of HPS.. its the freaking lumens! they have double the output of MH with the same wattage. 8O
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Old 07-24-2005, 06:11 PM   #108
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he shoots, he scores!!
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Old 07-24-2005, 06:14 PM   #109
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I dont need that much light for may project! LOL. I would need one half that wattage or less for the big scrubber project.. and thats the smallest one that sight sells.
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Old 07-24-2005, 06:19 PM   #110
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well your not hurting anything by going bigger than what you need. and as a full blooded american the more the better, in any situation. and it could really help push the algea to its growth limit, and reproduction. and you would save money going HPS than flo. lighting anyway.
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