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Old 11-24-2013, 03:39 AM   #1
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cool idea

this is what happens when i cant sleep. i have this sweet idea to build a tank to replace my coffee table. 5'x3'x18''. i think it would be neat if it was brackish but don't want a lid on the tank cause i think some mangrove trees would be umm awesome. with out the presents of a lid i might have to much evaporation (daily). im growing some mangrove seeds now it tap water in very low light and they are doing surprisingly well.
so im thinking a sand bed with a few mounds above the waterline. some base rock the trees roots can be tied to for easy removal. ive been into bonsai for several years and thing keeping a working mangrove ecosystem could be done. the water would come out of an elevated spout somewhere in the tank with a return system on the other end of the tank to keep the flow moving. some kind of small wet dry system underneath in the stand. if i use freshwater i dont think the wd would have to be that big. in my mind i can only see 35/40 gallons in the hole system. the lighting would be a day/night auto led hung from the ceiling.
livestock i can't see just yet cause the water wouldnt be that deep. perhaps some kind of hermit crabs, water frog (one that makes no noise) and some fancy tail guppies.
ive built a few tanks in the past with a friend of mine who is a glazer so the construction of the tank, stand, and wd isnt an issue. what would be the best filter system for this type of tank? is there a system that would work under the sand or gravel bed to get the water to the filter but leaving all the sub straight in the display tank? what type of livestock if any not mentioned above would be a good choice? and lastly is there any need for a fuge on a freshwater tank?
thanks in advance for reading and leaving your opinion. happy tanking
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:49 AM   #2
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I'm confused, at the start you say brackish would be neat but you go on to talk about FW and stock such as guppies. If brackish is your aim, look in to mollies if you want to keep with closer to FW fish, as they like a little bit of salt. But the rest of my advice will be given as if you're going for FW.

I also don't understand where abouts in a room this'll be placed. Where is your coffee table currently? Is it in the middle of a room or corner or side? Will a tank be easily accessible for maintenance?

Do you plan on it being a riparium kind of setup? I'm not sure about your lighting but just be sure you get something strong enough.

As far as filtration goes, if youre set on something underneath the substrate, I'd try and find whether it's viable to run an under gravel filter, that will suck the water down through the gravel then try hook it up to a canister filter so that filtration can occur underneath the tank. Then from there you can run it back to your spout at the mangroves or wherever. Only issue I see with that is detritus build up in the gravel.

An alternative to that is running a sump underneath. There's a number of benefits of using a sump, if you go down that road I'd read up on it a lot before hand, and get the tank drilled for overflow, as opposed to a HOB style overflow. There's no NEED for a refugium, no. However if you go with sump filtration, you have a very large footprint to work with under the tank, so I personally would seriously consider adding a "fuge" section to my sump. It can only be beneficial, really.

With evaporation, you could look at an automatic top off system (ATO). I don't have any experience with it but I'm sure someone does. That, or you could have a container of a sort close by the tank (I'd put it under, as again, you have a large footprint to work with) of pre-made water (dechlorinated, with desired salt added if you go brackish) and figure someway of making it convenient to get back into the tank (a small submersible pump connected to hose pipes perhaps). Additionally a sump will help control your water level, but you'll have to monitor the water level in your sump so it doesn't run dry.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:11 AM   #3
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You made some good points. Thank you. This tank has been a dream of mine for awhile. The tank would be placed in the center of the room. I have experience with electrical so adding the needed power outlets in the slab isn't a problem.
As for brackish or salt. I would rather bw cause the critters are nicer. I just wasn't sure if the maintenance on a rimless tank bw tank would be to much. Ive kept fw tanks with great success but have just recently gotten into sw.
I would rather use sand. Can I use a gravel bed filter with sand? I dont think so. Maybe I can put the sand on top of the gravel.
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Old 11-28-2013, 05:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms705jk View Post
You made some good points. Thank you. This tank has been a dream of mine for awhile. The tank would be placed in the center of the room. I have experience with electrical so adding the needed power outlets in the slab isn't a problem.
As for brackish or salt. I would rather bw cause the critters are nicer. I just wasn't sure if the maintenance on a rimless tank bw tank would be to much. Ive kept fw tanks with great success but have just recently gotten into sw.
I would rather use sand. Can I use a gravel bed filter with sand? I dont think so. Maybe I can put the sand on top of the gravel.
Is there any chance you could do a quick mock up sketch of what you're thinking? I'm really interested in this idea and how it'll come along.

Sand on top of gravel won't work unfortunately. The sand, being smaller, will find it's way to settling on the bottom over time. However I agree with your preference for sand, and if your planned setup is anything like I imagine, it'll look far better with sand

If you decide not to drill your tank for a sump, then I probably wouldn't bother with an under-substrate system. Just set up your intake at the lower end of the tank (opposite your return spout).

It sounds like you have more experience with fish keeping than me haha. I'm only new and only delving into FW so far. As far as rimless BW maintenance goes, you might want to post a thread dedicated to it in the general section, you're more likely to get a response in that regards to it
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jtez View Post

Is there any chance you could do a quick mock up sketch of what you're thinking? I'm really interested in this idea and how it'll come along.

Sand on top of gravel won't work unfortunately. The sand, being smaller, will find it's way to settling on the bottom over time. However I agree with your preference for sand, and if your planned setup is anything like I imagine, it'll look far better with sand

If you decide not to drill your tank for a sump, then I probably wouldn't bother with an under-substrate system. Just set up your intake at the lower end of the tank (opposite your return spout).

It sounds like you have more experience with fish keeping than me haha. I'm only new and only delving into FW so far. As far as rimless BW maintenance goes, you might want to post a thread dedicated to it in the general section, you're more likely to get a response in that regards to it
I will put my idea on paper for you. It'll be a few hours though with all the craziness of thanks giving.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:30 AM   #6
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Definitely following. Maybe some FW/BW puffers would be cool.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:47 AM   #7
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Yes like two or three toadfish. I love their eyes. Shrimp and a few crabs. Thats if I can figure out the best way to manage the bw. Just cause the evaporation I expect to have I think it'll wind up fw. I take an and all opinions seriously and will do the product research.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:16 PM   #8
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:53 PM   #9
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If you keep your SG about 1.005, the guppies would be just fine with a longer acclimation time. I keep guppies and platies in my BW tank (their fry are live food for my other fish).

Maybe try mud skippers in that set up. They very cool looking and can to the land/water mix. Fiddler crabs would also work well. Ghost shrimp do good in BW and since they are cheap, would also be a good food source for the mud skippers.

As for filtration, I think a submersible filter like the Fluval U series would work fine.
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:28 PM   #10
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That is the basic idea Mr X. Just with out the lid. I want to have live planted mangroves growing out of the tank
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