Hate water changes? What about an automated system?

[phishead]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this. Even people who do not hate water changes still spend time doing them. If I figured out a way to make it work I could make Millions!

Seriously, it seems that most people are pumping water out of a sump and replacing it as needed. If you vaccum substrate religiously, it probably will not work though I here that Hoover makes a robot.

Here it is, What if you placed a tee on the return pump to your system. of course one returns to the tank, but the other is plumbed to a drain. On that T, we place a irrigation/sprinkler valve. using an inexpensive timer, we set it to open one day a week at a certain time for a certain time( the amount it takes to empty your sump.)

Of course I am working on the refill piece, but it goes along the line of the auto top off system. As I read earlier today it is not so difficult to hook up you RO to a topoff system, so I think that with a little thought the brain trust here at AA can figure this out.

What do you think? Should I have already gotten a patent?

 

[fishfreek]

I am extremly cautious about an automated system that would operate with out any user intervention. What happens if the drain valve does not open yet the topoff valve does. Or worse if the drain valve opens but fails to close fully. If you drain your sump prior to cutting the pump off you risk burning up the pump before you get water back into the sump.

If you drain water and add water at the same time you need to make sure the rates are matched fairly well to keep from overfilling or overdraining the sump. Also if you run them at the same time you will envetably drain some clean water out of the system aswell so that would mean for every gal you drain out you would need to add at least 2 gal of clean water to make up for this.

I like the concept of a more low tech approach. Sure you can put your T in there and put a ballvalve on it. Plumb this to a drain and have a trashcan either elevated above your sump or have a pump in the mixing trashcan. Open the drain valve and drain the sump to a specific level. Then close this valve and start the top off pump to pump fresh saltwater or conditioned freshwater back into the system. When the sump reaches the proper level just cut off the water change pump.

 

[flipz]

I think the idea is good, and the system is good, but I agree that having it automatically do it from a timer isn't so good.

Maybe having it all setup and ready to go, and you just flip a switch whenever you want and it does it's deal, that would be better. Because you are there, and you can watch it incase something goes wrong.

Just my 2 cents. As far as making it work, I have no idea about that kind of stuff. Haha

-brent

 

[Clown Monarch]

When the "T" activates and diverts the siphoned water to the drain, simultaneously fresh water would be pumped into the sump at the same rate (where the old water would have gone). The two occurances could run on the same circuit to guarantee that one wouldn't happen without the other.

It wouldn't even require shutting down the sump. Furthermore, you could dial-in the number of gallons you wanted to change by simply selecting the amount of time the circuit would remain open.

If you make this work - I want royalties now.

 

[BillyZ]

Ok, here you go. This is a concept schematic. The relay can't really be right in line like that, you'll need a low voltage circuit to operate it, but this gets the point across. Basically, the float switch is a LOW LEVEL indicator. It is normally closed when the sump has a normal water level.

Pushing the Red start button (normally open spring loaded switch) triggers the relay which closes the drain circuit and opens the fill circuit. This supplies power to the Pump to begin pumping out the water and supplies power back to the relay so the push button can be released. (so you can walk away)

The system will continue to pump water out of the tank until the water level drops enough to open the float switch. This stops the pump and breaks the relay circuit. Which re-closes the circuit for the fill pump so new water can be pumped in. It is important to have the fill pump attached to a high level float switch, obviously.

Having an auto top-off system attached will handle the refilling automatically. (as long as this is a FW system. SW will need a seperate auto New SW system)

I'm PM you the address to send the checks!

 

[phishead]

I had thought about the above concerns, specially the safety of our pets. This is of utmost importance.

It is true, it would not have to be automatic, or it could set it up so you could manually start the cycle, just like with your sprinklers.

Irrigation/sprinkler valves tpictypically 2-3 times per day and rarely fail, but they are not designed to safesafeguard lives of our pets. If a Valve failed, the fear of overfilling the sump would be avoided, because the fill would be controlled by a float valve. The system would simply not change any water. For further assurance, it could run with two valves inline to make sure that the drain closes.

Or the Ball valve would make it more manually controlled.

The two occurances could run on the same circuit to guarantee that one wouldn't happen without the other.

It wouldn't even require shutting down the sump. Furthermore, you could dial-in the number of gallons you wanted to change by simply selecting the amount of time the circuit would remain open.

Good thinking, If both occurred at the same time, we would have to run for longer, and replace more water because the "waste water would be dilluted as thdilutedwater filled.

I had not thought to shut down the sump, I was thinking that the pump would actually drain the water, but I guess if you could figure out a way to turn the sump pump off, it could simply gravity feed.

One of my short comings is that my tank is in my dining room where I would not have room or plumbing hook-ups to make this work. I am however planning on moving it to (or getting a larger- don't tell my wife) my finished basement in the next year or two. In other words, I am not putting this into practice immediately. I am looking for input for the future.

Keep up the great comments.

 

[Fehyd]

ok, this may sound a bit silly... but what you guys are describing is a toilet. We already HAVE all of the tech for this at our disposal. why not just directly copy a standard toilet tank/plumbing and make it "flush" once a week?

 

[Clown Monarch]

John Crapper already owns the patent on the toilet. This is a High-Tech Water Replacement Unit.

Hey, if someone patented the Pet Rock, let us have our fun.

 

[flipz]

John Crapper already owns the patent on the toilet. This is a High-Tech Water Replacement Unit.

Hey, if someone patented the Pet Rock, let us have our fun.

 

[Fehyd]

ok ok.. I am still new here.. geesh.

you could still patent it an stuff though... imagine this marketing campaign for a tv commercial:

:cue cheesy music:
Fade in on a small child.. bravely holding back tears as he clasps his mother's hand. Close up of the mother, comforting the child.

"Don't be sad, Johnny, this leads to fishy heaven."

Zoom out and see the mother holding an empty fish net over a toilet bowl, with one hand resting on the handle. A flushing sound is heard.

Fade out... Fade in on little Johny, staring at the toilet with grim resolution on his face, twitching slightly and standing with his legs crossed.

"I'll never go to the bathroom again!"

cut to narrator

"Is your child afraid to use the toilet? Disgusted at the thought of crapping on 'Fishy Heaven?'

Teach him that not all flushes lead to a fishy funeral."
:Cue happy music:
Fade in on the product:
An acrylic toilet bowl, sitting on the floor next to an aquarium filled with HAPPY fish.

Introducing the Fish Flusher 2000! Tired of lugging those endless buckets of water? Tired of your finned friends floating in your tank because you didnt feel like changing the water? Worry no more!

the Fish Flusher 2000... Flush Fish the Right Way!



















C'mon... it would WORK!

 

[phishead]

ok, this may sound a bit silly... but what you guys are describing is a toilet. We already HAVE all of the tech for this at our disposal. why not just directly copy a standard toilet tank/plumbing and make it "flush" once a week?

No wonder why this inspiration came to me during one of THOSE moments. 8O

Had you already looked at my plans for an auto-toff of system or what? Dam, are you saying I can't retire off off this idea? Have to go back to that plan to earn a million dollars being a teacher!

Billyz you are on to something with the switch.

Keep it coming guys!

 

[TomK2]

I am however planning on moving it to (or getting a larger- don't tell my wife) my finished basement in the next year or two.

Is the basement already finished? If not, build the basement around your tank requirements! I have a finished basement with an office which shares a wall with the laundry room. This is fantastic, and is secretely the reason I agreed to buy this house I cut a whole in the wall, and sent all plumbing into the laundry room. I have a holding tank, room for a sump, air pumps are far enough away not to be a noise problem, and a sink just feet away. I went FW, put canisters there, but will switch to a sump when I get a tank with built in overflows.

OK. I hate water changes too. I am currently building a system that only reguires me to flip one switch for water out, and one switch for water in from a holding tank. then I have to fill the holding tank. It is simply a submersible magdrive pump in the holding tank with a hose to an outflow tube in the displaytank. I then have another outflow tube in the display tank that I am connecting to another magdrive pump that will have plumbing run to a drain sink in the laundry room. Turn one on, watch the water go down, turn off when desired. Turn the other on, watch the water go up, turn off when desired. connect hose to sink, replenish holding tank. Thats it! Takes about 10 minutes. Not as fancy as an automated computer controlled system, but what the heck. When I get tired of running a hose to the holding tank, I will hire a plumber to run a pipe and spigot over to it! I even found what looks like an extension cord, but is actually a remote on off switch with a plug on one end, which I ran over to the display tank so I could operate the pumps while I watched the water level. I am really satisfied with this, especially since I used to use buckets.

Start planning now, make modifications to the basement at your leisure, and your wife might not figure out what you are up to until you bring home the new tank

Edit: Duh. I just read the second post more carefully and It is exactly what I have built, except I don't have a sump and I use a pump to send water to the drain. Well, great minds think alike? Anyway the system is up and running and here is a link to my full description. Not automated, no patents, but water changes effortlessly in 5 or ten minutes.

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0015.htm

 

[polarzebra]

automatic water change system

Hi
Amazingly I had the same idea and working on the implementation. The only problem I found the irrigation valves need some inlet pressure of water to operate correctly. What we are trying to do is to use gravity to drain the tank. The amount of water will not generate enough pressure for the valve to close correctly. This is what I was told by the rainbird tech. Rainbird is one of the biggest manufactures of those type of inexpensive valves.
Val Kosiecki

 

[phishead]

That's interesting, My plan has not come together simply due to a lack of time. I probably would have used rainbird since they seem to be the most reliable, but who knows? Why would the pressure be a factor. It should be an electronic solenoid opening and closing. I have never read a minimum pressure on any info, but maybe it does assist on the valve closing. That might actually contribute to the dependability in the irrigation system. Sorry, thinking out loud.

Do they make lower flow valves like a drip system?

I don't know if the high flow, low pressure pumps we use in this hobby would generate enough pressure to help. I was originally thinking that one valve led to the drain, and the return to the tank went unvalved. The gravity would simply force the water downhill instead of back up to the tank.

As you can see, others had ideas of float valves and different pumps or powerheads to move the water, but I was thinking of not adding anything else to the system.

The darn h2o pressure thing tanked my auto top off system also. I can't get a toilet valve that is gravity fed to function correctly given the confines of a cabinet. If the holding tank were much higher, That idea could possibly work also.

 

[hashbaz]

I recently wrote a report on solenoid valves. Some REQUIRE pressure and some don't.