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Old 12-03-2006, 03:05 PM   #31
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I believe a bubbler would get sufficent oxygen in the water, to counteract the small surface area. I think it would be quite cool if you ran a bubble "wall" along one side of the tank.

I still wouldn't stock the tank heavily, espically if your prone to blackouts. The fish would NEED the bubbler.

Anywho, My logic could be flawed, Wait for more input I just saw that as an overly simple solution to the surface area/oxygen issue.
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:12 PM   #32
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All info I have seen states that an air stone (which I think you are describing as a "bubbler") doesn't oxygenate the water at all. It simply creates an upward current in your water column, and agitates the surface of the water keeping it from building up a protein film, which prohibits the surface gas exchange we've been addressing here.
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Old 12-03-2006, 04:10 PM   #33
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An airstone works only by disturbing the water surface, creating ripples. Ripples has larger surface area than flat calm, so it will help.

A cascading water fall thing is much better ..... the thin film of water coming down the face creates a large SA and this is typically used in ponds for aeration. It should work in a paludarium in miniature.

Another way to create SA for gas exchange is with a wet/dry setup. You could have a hidden sump someplace with a large wet/dry. The disadvantage with this is the complexity of plumbling, and if not designed right, the risk of flooding. Plus, the sump won't fit inside the wall, so you'll need to find a room or closet to house that ..... generally sumps are only practical for large setup (or SW, where the fish/coral needs the large SA/gas exchange) ....

All of this, however, is dependent on electricity & water movement ..... so there is always a risk of fish dying with a blackout.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:53 PM   #34
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so an air stone can help CO2 absorb into the water, but the same logic does not apply to the oxygen in the air?
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Old 12-04-2006, 08:08 PM   #35
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O2 has much lower solubility than CO2, so takes longer to diffuse across the air-water interface. Little O2 get diffused from the air bubbles before they get to the surface & is gone. The surface rippling effect is not insignificant, however. Vigourous surface aggitation can prob double your SA so an air stone will help with O2.

CO2 has much higher solubility & also chemical reaction with water, so will get into water much faster. (Plus your diffusion gradient is also much higher: 100% CO2 in your line into tank of maybe 2-3%, vs. less than 1 or 2% difference between air & water for O2.) So, more CO2 will get into the water with an airstone setup .... but to be truly efficient, you should use a reactor with the CO2 so none is loss to air.
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Old 12-04-2006, 08:21 PM   #36
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Also, if you have the doors with storage space, I'd also recommend putting vents in the door as well, to allow air flow from the house to the tank, and moisture to escape.
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:26 AM   #37
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Thanks for the science lesson. Just using a air stone would be too easy for him, eh? Laws of science have to be more difficult than that.
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:35 PM   #38
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[quote]
Quote:
Another way to create SA for gas exchange is with a wet/dry setup.
if you have the access from behind the circle, could you put a trickle filter above the tank?...a simple box?..you could pump water from the tank over layer of filter media?...let that run over some sort of bio media?...allow that to drip directly into the tank?...minimal SA / max gas exchange
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Old 12-09-2006, 05:48 AM   #39
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Yes I have access from behind the circle and I can make some sort of opening above the circle from behind , but I am a bit confused with what you are suggesting, I cannot picture myself how it will look like, also how big is the filter, or the layer . Anyhow it is a great suggestion some optimism after all the calcs.
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Old 12-09-2006, 03:15 PM   #40
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just an idea...it was somthing I saw on another board... not sure if it's kosher but this is the link
[url]http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34433&highlight=DIY+wet%2Fdry
ugly filters but good concept
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