Planted tank setup.....

[Lonewolfblue]

Well, as you know, I'm preparing to build new tank stands and canopies for 2 of my tanks. First is going to be my 29G, which will be my test tank. What I'll be doing is setting the stands up so I can fit my CO2 setups in them as well. I'm thinking of doing a stand that has a cabinet on each side of the tank. One side will be fish supplies for that tank, and the other side will have a large compartment, large enough to fit my 20lb CO2 bottle.

Then under the tank, I'll have 2 compartments. One will house my canister filter. The other will house a water pump, CO2 reactor, and inline heater. They will all be mounted as well, and not just hanging behind the tank. Will also house any other nick-nacks I install.

So here's my idea, and would like to get your input on this. I'm thinking of having only 1 intake and output from the tank. Under the tank, each will be split off to 2 connections. The intake will be the intake for both the canister filter, as well as the water pump. The inline heater will be installed on the canister output. As for the output, the spraybar will be connected to both the canister and the water pump.

Now for the water pump, this will be used for the CO2 reactor. I'll place an internal airstone in the path, just above the CO2 reactor. The mist will then have to go through the CO2 reactor and then out the spraybar. Or I may just use my Reactor 1000 and not bother with the airstone. I'm still thinking of different ideas.

So how does this sound? A single intake split off, one going to the canister and one going to the water pump. The canister path will include the inline heater. The 2nd path will go to the external water pump. This path will include the CO2 reactor. Then both paths will come back together and go out a specially made spraybar that will span the entire length of the tank, and have holes drilled straight out from the back, at a 45 degree angle up, and a few straight up. Also, this spraybar will be mounted at the bottom of the tank, across the entire back, at the gravel line.

Just so you know, here's the water pumps I'm looking at getting.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13917&N=2004+113041

29G CD-22927 580-P High Pressure
75G CD-22929 790-P High Pressure

 

[JDogg]

sounds interesting

my inital reaction is why not run the CO2 reactor inline with the filter?

 

[SparKy697]

Some concerns on this one.

1) The size of the tubing that combined flow will go through may be an issue. At the very least you may be creating a strong flow at the suction and discharge points in the tank. There is also a max. flow rate through any pipe/hose that is tough to exceed. The hose you would be using may be too small to accommodate both pumps.

2) If one pump is able to create significantly more pressure than the other, the weaker of the two will likely not see much flow at all. It's the path of least resistance thing.

3) We really have so little info on the pumps that come with these filters that it would be nearly imposable to design a system that has two pumps matched so that they would work together on a common suction/discharge system. Couple that to the fact that pump characteristics of the filter flow change as media gets clogged, this is a more complicated project than it first sounds.

All in all I would not recommend this configuration. In the long run it may likely cause you much heartache. You will have a much healthier system with independent suction/discharge lines.

 

[JDogg]

Some concerns on this one.

1) The size of the tubing that combined flow will go through may be an issue. At the very least you may be creating a strong flow at the suction and discharge points in the tank. There is also a max. flow rate through any pipe/hose that is tough to exceed. The hose you would be using may be too small to accommodate both pumps.

2) If one pump is able to create significantly more pressure than the other, the weaker of the two will likely not see much flow at all. It's the path of least resistance thing.

3) We really have so little info on the pumps that come with these filters that it would be nearly imposable to design a system that has two pumps matched so that they would work together on a common suction/discharge system. Couple that to the fact that pump characteristics of the filter flow change as media gets clogged, this is a more complicated project than it first sounds.

All in all I would not recommend this configuration. In the long run it may likely cause you much heartache. You will have a much healthier system with independent suction/discharge lines.

that is basicly what i was thinking without knowing how to say it :? Cheers

 

[SparKy697]

 

[GlitcH]

LWB are you planning on replacing any of your hoses with pvc?
I ask cuz the first thing that comes to mind is the extra GPH that the external pump is going to create, seem like it would be to much for one flexible intake to handle.

And will the canister work as well with such an increase in GPH?

Maybe I'm way off........I just got up and I'm tryin to wrap my head around this.
Probably unsuccesfully.

EDIT: heh....I thought I was the first reply......my computer must know its a holiday.

HAPPY EASTER!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Well, here's what I was planning. The intake and output will be 1" PVC. The intake will have 2 strainer intakes to help keep the suction down so fish hopefully won't stick to the strainers and die. I might also add a sponge filter on the strainers as well. The output will also be 1". These will run to 1" T-connectors, which will then run to their individual reducers. The canister end, since it's an XP filter, will be reduced to 5/8". The water pumps are 3/4", so they will also be reduced to the 3/4" to match the input and output ends. Then the outputs of each will go to a reversed reducer, or whatever you call them, and go back out to 1". They will both go to a T-connector, and the output of the T-connector to the spraybar. I'm hoping this will all work.

Then, when I do the 75G, I may need to use 1 1/4", since it will have a little more GPH.

And will the canister work as well with such an increase in GPH?

It should. The 2 loops are separate, but will use common intakes and outputs. So the GPH of the canister will remain the same, and the GPH for the water pump will be what it is as well. At least, I hope that's how it turns out.

 

[jsoong]

I think it will work if your intake & outflow are significantly larger than the combined intake/outflow of both pumps. If both pumps goes into a narrower pipe, then there will be significant resistance and the weaker pump would have reduced or no flow.

A 1" pipe has just barely the cross sectional area of the 3/4 & 5/8 hoses combined .... add in an elbow or 2 & you will likely have some extra resistance on one pump or the other .... to be safe, I'd use 1.25 or even 1.5" pipes. Another point to note is that you need to have enough area in your strainers for no resistance intake and enough holes in the spray bars to equal the cross-sectional area of the pipe as well.

However, I am wondering why you would want a parallel setup. Wouldn't it be simplier to just hook up the reactor in line to the output of the canister? Better yet, tee the CO2 line to the intake of the canister & you can use the canister itself as your reactor.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Well, my reasoning is I want a single spraybar that spans the width of the tank, and if I did this with my canister, I would have little flow in the tank. The amount of water coming out of the holes would be very little. So I need a higher flow to do what I want.

As for the setup, do they make bulkheads that go through something wide, like a piece of wood? I was thinking of doing a sealed top with fans in the top and vents in the side, but would like to run the intake and output to a bulkhead in the back of the canopy. Just curious. I would really like to do something like this on my 55G, so when I get another fire eel, there's no escape routes.

 

[Purrbox]

With a little ingenuity you could probably do two separate spray bars, each spanning half the tank, and have them look like just one long spray bar. Use a suction cup where the ends meet to hold them together or possibly just a slightly wider tube joining the ends which would both be plugged.

 

[jsoong]

I don't think you need bulkheads if you are just running pipes through the canopy. Bulkheads are only needed if you go through the tank walls so there will be no leak around the pipe. Anything above the waterline, you just need an intact pipe connection, small gap around the pipe is just fine.

I simply run my pipes into the sump (above the water line) through holes drilled through the sides. If you drill the holes just a tad larger than the pipe, there is no escape route. If you want a snug fit, you can use straight couplers. You can use 2 straight (female) couplers (or elbows, depending on configuration), put one on each side of the hole, & join them with a short piece of pipe in between. Get the length of the short pipe just right so the 2 couplers are tight against the material, and you have a seamless through the wall look. If you are going through thin material (say 1/8" or so), you can use a male & a female connector & omit the middle straight pipe.

Purrbox's idea of 2 seperate but joint spraybars is perfect - it would save headaches balancing the 2 outputs to a single pipe run, plus you can use narrower pipes so it will be easier to hide. If you make your spraybars out of PVC, you can plug one end of each bar with a male plug, then connect the 2 with a female-female coupler. You end up with one long bar with 2 seperate inputs (& output).

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Yup, I was kind of thinking of the 2 separate spraybars a well, but then that means another pipe running into the tank. 2 for the output and 1 for the intake. As for my 29G, because it's not really that big of a tank, I'm just thinking of using the canister filter, and run it to both the heater and CO2 reactor, and then save the 2nd external pump I bought for my 55G project. What I'm really looking for it getting rid of all powerheads in both the 55G and 75G by having a single external pump and a spraybar, and enough flow to eliminate dead spots, as that's where my BGA I was getting was starting at. Once I got good flow with 4 powerheads in my 75G, the BGA went completely away.

As for the pipe going through the canopy, that sounds like a very good idea you brought up. In a way, it's like a bulkhead, but just using a short pipe to go through the wood. And the wood it's going through is probably going to be a 2x6, as the base of the canopy will be 2x6's, and then above the 2x6's will be the rest of the canopy where the lighting will be installed, a solid piece of glass that slips in to protect the bulbs from the water, and a door on the front that swings open. Or maybe even 2 doors that opens like a cabinet. It's going to look really nice when complete. And probably be really heavy too, lol.

Glad you guys and gals are posting, it's giving me some really good ideas. Since I got an unexpected bonus at work this week, I think this weekend I'm going to get all the wood that I need for framing both the base and canopy. Then once I get everything framed, and ready for the cedar, then I'll get that wood. That way I know how much I'll need, and can get what I need. And if it turns out really well, then maybe I'll make a few that I can sell and get my money back, lol.