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Old 10-12-2008, 01:20 PM   #51
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I found the same thing as you with the Durso .... It is rather difficult to tune. If you plot flow vs hole size, I would think that it would be a "U". Flow will be highest with no hole (full siphon) and max size hole (full open). Unfortunately, noise will be lowest only at the min flow. The trick is to find the right size Durso so that the min flow is greater than your pump flow. <Note that you can use bigger size pipes for the Durso than your bulkhead ... you connect it with a reducer .... It doesn't matter so much with the bulkhead size as the bottle neck is the Durso mechanism.>

I have not been able to get a Durso working as quiet as I like. I get the same problem as you. With a small hole (and low noise), the flow is not high enough so water backs up and convert the Durso into a full siphon. At this point, the flow is too high, and it sucks the water down & make a big slupping sound. The level drops, converting back into low flow Durso ... the cycle repeats .... The slupping noise is worse than running the system open. That is the reason I will be trying the full siphon with an emergency open setup. <People with sucessful Durso I think have the water fluctuating between the middle of the T & the middle of the downturned elbow .... I can't seem to find the right size hole to do that ....>

Estimating pump flow with a ball valve is tricky. The flow vs reisitance curve is not linear, so 1/2 open valve does not equal 1/2 the flow. One way to find out is to do the t-divertor setup & measure the flow in the diverting limb. Another way to estimate is to look back at the flow vs head height table. Take the gph rating at 1/2 the max head height (minus current head height) and that might be where you are at. [Looked at the table & it is around 800-1000 ghp for the Mag 24.]

I wouldn't do anything to the sump baffle at this point. Do that once you have all your flows settled (ie pump, overflow, etc.) or you end up having to redo things. You can raise the 1st baffle height - as long as you have enough room on top for water to spill over (safety in case of blockage). <Otherwise you will need to increase the gap at the bottom & maybe increase the space between the 1st & 2nd baffle ... that means taking the thing apart ..... >
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80 gal FW with 30 gal DIY wet/dry/sump.
9 fancy golds, 1 hillstream loaches, 1 rubber-lip pleco (C. thomasi), 3 SAEs, small school of white cloud minnows, planted.
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Old 10-12-2008, 02:58 PM   #52
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Thought of a better way to figure out your pump flow.

Turn your pump off & let water drain down to the sump. At this point, the water level should be higher than all the baffles. Turn pump back on & note the speed the water level goes down. <Do the timing before the water starts coming back from display and before the water level drops below the baffles.> From this, you should be able to calculate the gph:

GPH = Sump surface area (sq inches) x Speed water level drops (in per minute) x (60/231)
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80 gal FW with 30 gal DIY wet/dry/sump.
9 fancy golds, 1 hillstream loaches, 1 rubber-lip pleco (C. thomasi), 3 SAEs, small school of white cloud minnows, planted.
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Old 10-13-2008, 02:53 AM   #53
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Speed water level drops... This means if it drops 1 inch in 3 seconds the number I use is 20/1?


Thought of something... Because my 2 standpipes come together before dumping into sump, wouldn't they both have to be full siphon for one of them to be?
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Old 10-13-2008, 12:13 PM   #54
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If it drops 1" in 3 sec, then yes, the speed of drop is 20" per minutes.

Depends on how you connects the 2 standpipes .... Generally, it is better to have the 2 completely separate, since any constriction in the connection will degrade the performance of the standpipes. The least resistance is a connection using a Y. A T connector adds a fair bit of turbulence & you might get into airlock & other problems, but I would think that with your pipe size, it is mostly an issue of noise.

I think you can get a full siphon on one of the standpipe as long as the connection is well below the display. You only need a siphon to draw water pass the inverted U. Once it get pass that, the water just falls. An opening below that level should make no difference.
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Old 10-13-2008, 01:56 PM   #55
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Yes, the undertank plumbing is not ideal, though it works and was difficult to build and connect, the only reason I would change it is if I can't find a suitable silent submerged pump and need to change to an inline.

Did two 1" water drops in the sump, one was 10sec and the other was 11

10sec ---> GPH = surface area (18x48 x water drop (6/1) x (60/231) = 1346.5

11sec ---> GPH = surface area (18x48 x water drop (5.455/1) x (60/231) = 1224.2

So I want to find a pump that, after head loss, pumps 1300gph?


BTW... The U's I created for the OF work great in pumping all sump water into display to be siphoned out.

I have help today moving the tank aside and stand outside to be sanded and finished, then back in on wednesday.

Going to try again in hardware for recommendations on silent 1600(?)gph pump...
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:18 AM   #56
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Looks like Quiet One pumps are quieter and more energy efficient than MagDrive, and cheaper at foster & smith. Am I missing something?

If not then I will get the 6000 or the 9000...
The 6 has 1500gph
The 9 has 2300gph

Do you think that 1500gph will work out after head loss?
I know that 2300 is nearly as powerful as my current MagDrive, but it appears to use less power and if it is silent I can T off the extra flow, I just don't want to make the mistake of ending up with not enough...
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:50 PM   #57
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A lot depends on how much water flow you need.

This is the flow table:
Quiet One Pond Pumps

Your head loss will be the height difference between the tank water level & the sump water level. There will be some loss from the pipe/ spray bars, etc. but that will not be too significant .... may be 10% less.

Looking at the 6000 table, it shows flow of around 1000-1200 gph at 3-4'. Which I would guess to be close to your head loss. Is that kind of flow rate enough for the turtles?

A smaller pump will be quieter, but it will be less flexible if you are running it at its limit. Eg. you need a new pump if you want to redo the plumbing & go for higher flow. OTOH, the 9000 will still be running over 2000 gph with head loss ... That's a lot of flow. Too bad there isn't an in between size.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:03 AM   #58
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Yes... too bad...

Again, my #1 concern about a new pump is silence, not many advertise the level of noise produced. I read that some of the external ones, like Reeflo, can only be heard a foot or so away. I am willing to go in-line if the right pump for my needs (silence, 1300gph, magnetic drive) turns out to be in-line and not submerged.


Not really sure how much flow the turtles 'need'
Their top needs are diet, basking temp, and UV light, all taken care of.
I don't think they would like living in a rushing river but I am not too concerned, they can find places to sleep like on or under the ramp just fine.


The 'right' flow is one that keeps water moving toward the overflow and U siphons and doesn’t let waste build up. I would place the height at 5', and a T off with spraybar might increase this to 6' (?), making my flow 900gph, do you think this is enough to keep water moving across a 6' long, 2' wide tank?
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:15 PM   #59
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900 might be a smidge low .... You might get some dead spots in a big tank. I know reefers aim for 12-15x water turn over, and since your tank is 1/2 full, I am guessing 1000-1500 gph to start.

Since you have the Mag24 set up, why don't you try chocking the flow down to 900 & see if that is acceptable? <May be put a pinch of fish food or some other small particles here & there & see how fast it gets disperse into the water column.>
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:27 PM   #60
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well with the amount of bends you have its definitely not 2400. for my reef setup i have a mag 9.5 on my return for my 100g tank. for my 200g cube im building im going to use a mag18. my mag 9.5 is dead silent. a mag 9 would be perfect for turtles. i have a 210 turtle tank with 2 fx5's running it.
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