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Old 09-28-2008, 03:24 AM   #1
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Question Plumbing 180g FW to 65g sump

I have been creating/refining my design over the past couple weeks on here while my tanks seals finished hardening, lots of help thanks so much.

I have completed my flow design and have a MagDrive#24, intake strainers and ball valves in the mail.

Here is a diagram of how the tank was built/drilled:

There is a lowered platform I will add rocks to, built in ramp, and overflow box which sets the water level 1/2" below the platform. There are holes drilled in the overflow box allowing 1" and 1.5" pipes. Underneath the platform is a hole allowing a 1.5" pipe that I intended to use as an intake for Fluval 405... but then I learned about potential siphoning and flooding during a power outage.

Here is a diagram including the equipment:

The hole under the platform will let the return line through, ending in a manifold at the surface facing in multiple directions to enhance flow accross the tank. The 1.5" pipe will have a strainer and the 1" will be a U over the lip of the overflow that will draw from the bottom of the display:

The diagram shows siphon breaking holes on the pipe in the box, though I have changed that to just below the surface in the display. I will add the holes 1 by 1 as too few wont break the siphon and too many will dominate the flow into the pipe.
I am not sure whether this flow will be created/maintained by the Fluval or simply a gravity induced siphon initiated by opening a ball valve, whichever rate of flow is highest I guess is the one I will go with, it would be easier using the Fluval on the sump only anyway.

I'd appreciate feedback and sugestions, I will post photos of the build as I go over the next week or so.
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:32 AM   #2
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I have completed the in-tank part of the return line, coming through the bottom of the tank to a manifold at the surface, directing water down and horizontally:


I have holes drilled in the top section facing diagonally down, just under the water level to break a back-siphon:


Here is a photo of overflow box, will construct top portion next missing only intake strainers which are in the mail.


Feedback and suggestions are welcome, especially about what to put in sump, possibly making it a planted refugium.
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:07 PM   #3
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That tank is looking awesome! I like your return "spraybar".

I have some thoughts on your u-tube design. Right now, you run a risk of draining your entire tank into your sump with a power out. I know you have the air break holes inside your overflow box, but if those get plugged with anything ...... And your tank will drain down to the level of the holes, so your holes need to be much higher than the drawing. Also, I have found that the water level inside an overflow box to vary a bit during use, so it would be difficult to find the right place to put the holes & still maintain siphon during use.

A simpler & more foolproof way to draw water from the bottom of the tank would be a "dam" around the overflow box with slots at the bottom. That way the water would come through the bottom, then go over the top of your overflow box. <Your lowest water level in a power out would then be at the height of your overflow.> An alternative would be u-tubes that ends freely inside your overflow box (not attached to the 1" bulkhead as shown). In this setup, you wouldn't need any air break hole. You would maintain siphon inside your u-tube at all time, even during powerout. You control your tank water level by the height of the standpipes inside your overflow. <Both holes inside the overflows would need standpipes.>
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:20 PM   #4
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Jsoong is correct about the overflow design. Google reef ready tanks and look at the way the overflows are designed.

Very cool solution though. The Mag 24 is going to produce a lot of flow so be ready for it. I really like the idea of a planted refugium under the tank that will help keep things filtered!
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:27 AM   #5
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I should have requested small holes in the base of the overflow, but I didn't understand all of that when I ordered the tank.

The U pipe will not work as I have drawn, plus it will be pulling through my vent holes inside the box...
Instead, I have moved the holes to outside the box, beneath the surface of the display water, at the same level as the return line vent holes. This way, even if some is pulled through the vent holes, it will be closer to the intake strainers and not as counter productive...
I hadn't considered the holes clogging a very serious problem, couldnt a daily check on them prevent this?

If the U simply wont work and I should use the dual (siphon&emergency) standpipe setup, how can I get flow accross the bottom?
I am not really willing to run any more equipment, like a powerhead, If I extend my spraybar to another + (cross) at the bottom will I be losing too much power from the magdrive24?
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:26 PM   #6
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I'm pretty sure that the Mag24 is going to give you flow through out the tank. You should not have any issues there.
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimothy View Post
....Instead, I have moved the holes to outside the box, beneath the surface of the display water,....
That is a dangerous setup! Having the air break hole outside of your overflow box means water is being sucked into the hole during use .... This is much more likely to plug as anything floating around the top of your tank will tend to be pulled against the hole, completely blocking it.

Personally, I will not sleep well at night with any setup that has a possibility of flood .... even with daily checks. You should design so that flooding is impossible, barring a major catastrophe - like the tank breaking.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:10 PM   #8
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This is a drawing of my designs of an overflow that draw water from the bottom:

The left setup I have used before. I used an UGF plate on the bottom of the tank, and attached that to a siphon tube into the overflow box. <You can use a strainer if you like.> Water is pulled through the UGF in the bottom & into the overflow. The tank water level is set by the standpipe (red) height (minimum level). If the siphon fails, or can't keep up with the return pump, then water level will rise & go over your overflow box (maximum tank level). There is no risk of a flood as long as the standpipes can handle the flow.

The right side is an alternative setup. This is similar to an air trap baffle in a sump. In the tank, you would have a mesh covering the gap at the bottom of the baffle to prevent loss of critters into your sump. The water level is set by your overflow box height, again no risk of flood. <And if the gap is plugged, water will rise & spill over the top of the baffle into your overflow ... still no flood.>
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:11 PM   #9
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I certainly don’t want a flood so if holes clog easily then I will have to go with 2 standpipes in overflow box.

jsoong: I don't understand how the siphon is created/maintained in the U in the drawing on the left...
If it is too complicated to construct something around the box then I will have to rely on enough flow across the bottom to have suspended waste go overtop overflow box...

ziggy: Turtles make a lot more waste than fish and I can't do a gravel wash every day...
So the flow, built as is, will reach all corners and prevent buildup in gravel?
Do you think the spraybar I've constructed is adequate or should it bend another 45* down and end in another cross-piece...
I designed it to not face directly down as to not blast the gravel underneath it with full force of pump


To prevent a dead area from forming underneath the platform and under the ramp,
the ramp does block the flow, on the left side, from going the entire length of the tank:
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:21 PM   #10
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I really believe that you will have enough flow to keep the waste moving. Now that is not to say that you wont have a dead spot hear and there but that is going to happen regardless.

Since you put 4-ways (giving you 3 jets) you could always plumb one of the down to point toward the overflow across the bottom of the tank. I think the best thing for you to do is get things finished up and put some water in there and see what kind of movement you get. I think your design is good and I think it will work. Granted I don't know much of anything about turtle care but from where I sit I think it will work for you.
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