Poorman's Pressurized CO2 System (Bandwidth warning)

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PsiPro

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
Sep 2, 2005
Messages
601
Location
FL
What is required along with the prices i got them for:
--Paintball CO2 tank (or any tank really) (Free, brothers old paintball tak, new $9 at walmat for the 9oz, or $30 for the 20oz. I am using a 20oz)
---Regulator to fit the tank you picked. ($10 or so, I didn't get this either but I was told it was less then $15)
EDIT: Please note this is not a regulator for playing paintball, those run around $35, and I dont know if they work. This is just an On/Off switch i'm using as a regulator. When I get home I will see if i can get a more fine tuned regulator to enable a constant flow of CO2
---Some plastic object to hold the CO2 in the tank.
EDIT: I'm including this as $0 becasue you can proably find somthing in your house. Tube of raquetballs at wal-mart is cheap.
---Enough airline tubing to span the height of your tank x4 + 10 feet or so. You can get 25ft at wal-mart for less then $10.

Total price: $34-54

Ok so I started by just wanting to make a normal pressurized CO2 system with a paintball tank, I obtained the tubing, a fine airstone, and a regulator for the tank. And I got this...

P1010067.JPG


The red thing is a one way valve to protect the tank.

I soon relized that i could adjust the tank to release the exact ammount of CO2 i needed, but I could not get it to stay there, the regulator was ment for the on/off position.

So I moved on and I decided on, then I need to just hold the CO2 under water until it disolved, so next I decided to make a reactor, but relized I couldn't hold in suspended in the water collum with what I have in my dorm room.

So next I built this...
P1010065.JPG


The tube on top is comming from the CO2 tank. The tube on the bottom I will get to in a minute. My "plastic object" is an old raquet ball tube, I poked alot of holes in the end of it with a scredriver and I worked hard to get all the glue off of it. The holes are to increase circulation.

The rocks in the bottom of tube are to hold it down, and the white stuff on the sides is filter floss to allow circulation but lock alot of the CO2.

After a day with that in my tank I decided that it did not have the ammount of water flow I needed. So I upgraded again. I added the second tube you see above, on the bottom. I took the other end of it, created a siphon and attached it....

P1010066.JPG


Right there. That creates a small siphon which increases the flow through my reactor.

I have no idea how effective it will be, but I'm proud of it none the less.

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Wizzard~Of~Ozz said:
Regulators for paintball markers are between 50 and 100$. Gas through grips are 10$.. (yes there is a difference)

Your right, there are $35 regulators on ebay, but I guess i used the other thing.
 
At what rate is gas outputing from the CO2 cylinder? Or do you just open the valve to fill up the reactor when it runs low? Apologies for my confusion.
 
I just open it, the valve i have on it wont stay in one position exept on and off.

The buble of CO2 i try to create is mabey.... 6cm accross and 0.5 cm deep. so its 14ml give or take. That dissolves to the size of a pennie in 5 or 6 hrs. So I dont konw how fast its going, i need to start taking readings.

Where is the calculator for that?
 
Here you go:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm

Good to test KH and pH of tap water thats been sitting for 24 hours to get a baseline CO2 reading. If you get ~3ppm CO2, the CO2 chart and calc above should be very useful. If not, you can infer CO2 levels from pH drop and algae/plant health. Interested in your results.

So CO2 is dissolving faster than the cylinder is outputting over an extended period, or is that after 5-6 hours with the valve off? Do you think it will eventually be possible to balance the output and diffusion rates so you won't have to touch the cylinder until its time to refill, without need for a regulator? Very appealing project :)
 
After observing the results overnght, the buble of CO2 did not completly disperse. I will assumethat is because as it get smaller 1) the surface area goes down and 2) it gets farther from the artifical waterflow.

Mabey twice a day I tap the regulator to reful the CO2 tank, in my tank. Then I check back every now and they to add more if neede .

Do you think it will eventually be possible to balance the output and diffusion rates so you won't have to touch the cylinder until its time to refill, without need for a regulator?

Proably not with this cheap regulator. The pressure from the nozzel is high enough to force the pin back out and therefor close the regulaotr again, this is not a true regulator as was pointed out by Wizzard~of~Oz. I can ask exactly what it was.

I will try to get some results up here ASAP, but today will be a very busy day for me.
 
Psi, if it screws onto the bottle then chances are it's a On/Off (asa).. for one that turns on and off you are still looking at 25-30$, if it is not an on/off then it would be a standard asa (typically duckbill design) and require you to tighen it onto the bottle.
 
I took a reading from the tank today, KH of 6 pHoof 7.6 wich gives only 5 ppm CO2

I am however going to keep testing and makeing sure the bottle is filled with CO2 all the time.

Dont I have to compare this to my tap water? if so how do i do that?
 
Just leave out a glass of water for a day before testing.
 
I know, but what do i do with that water, i test it for my "normal" pH? then how to i compare it to tanks readings and what do I put in the calculator? Am I missing somthing, was this explained on the website?

Update: My kuli loaches decided they like the inside of the reactor and tore up the filter floss to get inside. This freaked me since the CO2 content in there will be very high, so I redesigned it to have on end completly open but the entier thing tilted and angled into the ground, creating a buble in the back and an opeing where they can freely go in and out as they please.
 
Ah, sorry. Should test KH and pH of tap to get a baseline value for CO2 from tap. (KH results should be the same, but good to get a tap value to verify nothing in the tank is messing with it.) You would then enter those values into Chuck's calc and see if you get the expected ~3ppm CO2. If you have much less (say, .5ppm CO2), you can probably assume the derived CO2 level in the tank is off, and then infer CO2 levels by pH drop (compared to tap) and plant health/algae.

If the current CO2 levels seem acurate, interested in what you try next.

Your updated reactor sounds like a good idea. FWIW, non-metallic window screen is great at keeping kuhliis where you don't want them.

HTH
 
OK Somthing is off. I did the tests and here is what i got:

Tap:
pH 7.9
KH 11

Tank
pH 7.5
KH 5

I did both tests twice... did I not leave the water out long enough? Is this expected? Do I need a new test kti? I'm using "Freshwater Master Liquid Test Kit" has a carton fish on it named Doc Wellfish.
 
Your Kh should not change by letting water sit out. Ph should rise only if there is in fact CO2 to outgas.

You might try taking a glass of tank water and letting it sit for 24 hours before you test it. Then test it and some fresh tank water at the same time. If the Kh is not the same on both, then the test is in error. Now for Ph, that may or may not change based on actual CO2 content and outgassing. But, the Ph of the aged water should be equal or higher than the fresh tank water.

These basics are helpful to know only for the sake of determining whether you are getting "reasonably accurate" readings in general. The major problem with most home test kits is that minor variations in the test conditions, often introduced by the person doing the test, result in major changes in the results. You might try performing the same test (Ph or Kh) 5 times in a row from the same water sample. The variation you get in those 5 measurements will give you some idea as to the "accuracy" with which you are able to test the water.
 
If the test results hold up after Zezmo's multiple trial advice, maybe try posting in Planted or General. I recall discussions about KH dropping in the tank, but have only experienced it when using an acidic substrate designed to lower KH. Am no help.
 
I posted the parts needed to do DIY presurized CO2 in the CO2 sticky in the FW planted area of the fourm. Just in case someone didn't see it.
any standard CO2 tank would work 5lb on up (they could make slightly smaller sizes but I would think a 5lb tank should be cheap enough localy)
I gave the links to the needle valve and 1/8" adaptors needed to meter the gas properly.
HTH
 
I saw that, however thsoe valves will not stand up to the full pressure of the tank, so a regulator is still nessary.

I did however contact the owner of the site and he directed me to a site with the full instructions on setting up a CO2 system with paintball equip.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/27883-nano-co2-ada-style-regulator.html

It says total price is $180ish so its just as expensive to use a real setup. I'm going to stop trying to upgrade this and just save my $ for a pressurized system. However until then I will still use this.
 
Ok so I retested my water and here is what i got:

Tap:
pH Did not test
KH 16

Tank
pH 7.4 (Deffinatly got alot lighter, changed)
KH 6

I just put a new filter on the tank, wondering if somthing in there raised the KH, could also be that i did a water change.

the KH in the tap water went up signifigantly, so I'm thinking it may be somthing in the cup i held it in. I got another bit of it and will test again.

UPDATE: 4/7
Well I tested the pH again today and my system is deff working.

I got a new canister (Wo0t less CO2 loss) and hooked my extra syphon up to this filter outflow. I tested the pH today and it was at 7.1, it droped like a rock.My fish were also gulping and hanging on the surface.

Please see my other thread in general discussion...
 
For anyone I have the pH at 7.0, exactly where I want it... suposedly.
 
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