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Old 02-05-2005, 09:21 PM   #101
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"Are you saying that your right to smoke outweighs my right to not have smoke in the air I have to breathe? What gives you more rights than I have?"

Nope, what I'm saying is what gives you the right to tell someone how they can run THIER business, what gives you the EXTRA rights to tell me I can't open a bar that allows people to smoke, because you might want to come in? If the shopkeeper decides he wants smokers to come in, and makes it a smoking establishment, then what gives you the right to force your will on him? so you can go where you like? sorry, he wasn't interested in your business in the first place.

"Are you suggesting that it is OK to have kids inhale second hand smoke because you have the "right" to blow it in their faces? You keep comparing smoke to hot dogs and cold air in the winter. What's your point in bringing those into the argument?"

No, I never said it was OK, but you ignorantly jammin hotdogs down my kids throat at a birthday party just increased his/her chances of gettin leukemia by 9x, so where do we draw the line about what's considered endangerment of children? and who has that right to draw lines?


"Are you consistent? Are you in favor of a person's right to smoke marijuana is his own home? To drive at whatever speed he wants on the highway? To play loud music in a train car? All of these would follow from your reasoning with respect to smoking, wouldn't they? "

If I went to a dance club, I would not have the right to complain, if I'm on the train, I WOULD since I'm in a public place that is necessity for me. (if a bar is a necessity for you then you have more issues then smoke). Driving what ever speed you want, well once again, i find your examples to include places people need to be, not places they choose to be, perhaps you have a hard time keeping the 2 seperate.

I'll use one of your examples.

Accidents at speeds of over 90KPH are far more likely to be fatal ones, and you feel your life is in danger everytime you go over that speed, so instead of staying on the back roads where you feel safe, you force the speedlimit reduced to 80 to suit your needs, even tho you only travel on the highway once a year. Not fair to people who don't have a problem.

at what point will we stop trying to protect everyone from everyone else? at what point is it your responsibility to take action on your own accord, if you don't like the speed, stay off the highway, if you don't like the smoke, stay out of the bar that says it contains smoke.

what gives you the right to expect the rest of the population to conform to what makes you feel comfortable.

"Again...How is you rights any greater than mine? "

and how are yours any greater then mine, you have a choice of entering a place or not, if I don't like the smell of McDonalds, I DON'T GO IN, if non-smokers used the same discresion, we wouldn't be having this debate.

and the relation between cigarette smoke and hot dogs, It's the same carcinogen that's found in both.
Quote:
‚ÄĘ N-nitroso compounds. Found in cigarette smoke, some medications and cosmetics,and cured meats, these chemicals induce brain cancer in experimental animals. Maternal ingestion of these compounds during pregnancy can increase the risk of childhood brain cancer and leukemia.
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Old 02-05-2005, 10:08 PM   #102
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Accidents at speeds of over 90KPH are far more likely to be fatal ones, and you feel your life is in danger everytime you go over that speed, so instead of staying on the back roads where you feel safe, you force the speedlimit reduced to 80 to suit your needs, even tho you only travel on the highway once a year. Not fair to people who don't have a problem.
This quote illustrates to me that you fail to grasp the point. You are thinking only about yourself. The person driving over 90 might kill ME, that's why he's not alllowed to do it.
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Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
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Old 02-05-2005, 10:34 PM   #103
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as far as the driving thing goes, they said KPH but even then it's hard to say. the illustration didn't make a ton of sense to me either way. People don't know for sure what they can handle as much as they think they do. And the quote makes it sound as if it's one persons rights over everyone elses. People for some reason seem to think we can do absolutely anything we want. This conversation is making less and less sense to me. There are certain things in life that we have rights to do and not do, but other things we don't have the right to do and it's usually for good reason. Now obviously the government makes mistakes but more than often they make their decisions based on the good of all people(most of the time)... We really can't complain about every thing they do just because they're doing something.
"if you don't like the speed stay off the highway" how about if you don't like the speed limit don't drive. We're going back and forth here trying to decide who's rights are more important. Something you do will infringe on my so called rights and something I do might infringe on yours... That's where the government steps in and tries to make things work. Like I said, they make mistakes but they can't please everyone. You seriously can't say that you can handle a greater speed than the limit allows and anyone that can't should stay off that road. How selfish
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Old 02-05-2005, 10:48 PM   #104
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Lets not start getting too personal in here. Opinions are fine, but this discussion is getting to the border of unacceptable.
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Old 02-05-2005, 10:51 PM   #105
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Yes, 90 Kilometers per hour. (approx 65MPH) and if that's the speed limit, people have the right to do it, even if someone else isn't comfortable with it and they don't feel safe because they choose to be there, it's thier problem not the others.

Quote:
And the quote makes it sound as if it's one persons rights over everyone elses.
That's exactly what I'm trying to say, is it anyones right to override others? NO.

I think we can agree that there is a disagreement here on who's rights are being violated, your right to choose where you eat, or the owners rights to choose where you eat, clearly, the owners have exclusive rights as to whether or not you are allowed in there. If I was an owner of a restaraunt I'ld have a sheltered area for smokers and throw all non-smokers out of the actual restaraunt for no real reason, but hey, that's just spite. (and well within what limited rights an owner has now)
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:06 PM   #106
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I haven't kept up with this thread, but I just read enough to know that it needs a cool down period. I saw a couple of cheap shots that have no place on this board. This thread will be reopened tomorrow.
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:12 PM   #107
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In addition all three threads about smoking have been merged.
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Old 02-06-2005, 10:07 AM   #108
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OK, the thread has been unlocked. Lets keep it civil.
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Old 02-06-2005, 12:49 PM   #109
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Woohoo! I'm civil! I haven't smoked in 2 days after smoking an average of 15 cigs/day for the last 4 years. All ya need is a decent motivation...... And you need a calm period in your life to take the time to stop. And you need to decide an exact day so you can mentally prepare. That's my way.
I feel so much better already, I feel more relaxed, I smell better, my food tastes better......all good things.
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Old 02-06-2005, 02:35 PM   #110
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YAY Billsgate! Congrats to you - I'm sure you'll succeed.

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All ya need is a decent motivation...... And you need a calm period in your life to take the time to stop.
So true! I have a friend who stopped smoking after years of smoking about the same as you. His motivation was his fiancee. Unfortunately, he chose to stop a few days before he moved to a new apartment, and the move didn't go quite as smoothly as he had planned. He was smoking like a chimney that day. After he got settled in, he stopped again, permanently this time.
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