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Old 12-10-2012, 06:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by marsh
Mac you mean "novelty" in the sense of carnival-prizes and temporary type pets people give kids for fun, not for keeps if you will.
It was actually me that mentioned the novelty part. In a way yes but not exactly. I once had an acquaintance that would regularly keep rare fish and when he would get sick if them he'd just let them go. It's things like that, that bother me and is what I meant by "novelty"
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:06 PM   #12
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I just think that too often people consider "cheap pet" to mean "disposable animal". I'm not a fan of carnival prize goldfish, but I've seen them end up in good hands before. At that point, the fish went from unethical treatment to ethical.
While I appreciate the value of teaching children responsibility by giving them care of an animal, it needs to be supervised.
An example of what I consider "the wrong way" is a friend of my ex gf, who buys his daughters new goldfish every week or so to replace the ones who found Cheerios and tomato soup and whatnot unpalatable -.-
To make matters worse, last year he even gave in to her demands for a clownfish (I refuse to call them "that movie title" fish). And I'm sorry to say, he felt it would be a good roommate for the remaining goldfish. In an uncirculated, unheated... freshwater bowl.
That is unethical. And the daughter learns nothing, except to devalue life.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jetajockey
I don't think it's unethical to have fish for amusement. As long as there is a market for rare/endangered fish, people are going to buy them. The answer to that is regulation of endangered species, we have lists here for those who collect in the wild, and we shouldn't promote poaching by patronizing those who still collect wild species that are endangered. I think this is more of a problem in the SW trade, but still.
I didn't mean amusement in that kind of way. I was meaning people that keep a fish with no knowledge in regards to its requirements to be kept successfully. They only get them because of the "cool" factor and couldn't care less about the health if their fish.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:35 PM   #14
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Sorry for misquoting. Yes the "exotic" factor is detrimental to wild-poached animals as it only keeps the attention for a limited timeframe- like celebrity-owned chimps and crime-lord owned tigers. They often end up starving and neglected.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by MacDracor
I just think that too often people consider "cheap pet" to mean "disposable animal". I'm not a fan of carnival prize goldfish, but I've seen them end up in good hands before. At that point, the fish went from unethical treatment to ethical.
While I appreciate the value of teaching children responsibility by giving them care of an animal, it needs to be supervised.
An example of what I consider "the wrong way" is a friend of my ex gf, who buys his daughters new goldfish every week or so to replace the ones who found Cheerios and tomato soup and whatnot unpalatable -.-
To make matters worse, last year he even gave in to her demands for a clownfish (I refuse to call them "that movie title" fish). And I'm sorry to say, he felt it would be a good roommate for the remaining goldfish. In an uncirculated, unheated... freshwater bowl.
That is unethical. And the daughter learns nothing, except to devalue life.
Yea thats just not right. My 3 year old has a 10 gal with a betta that she actually takes an active roll in taking care of(with my help of course). She picked him out and is just fascinated by him. I think she actually has interest in the hobby cus she even helps with the tank maintenance on both of my aquariums, even though she's just more in the way than anything, I don't want to discourage her by not letting her help.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:45 PM   #16
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And that, ladies and gentlemen is how it's done! Good job!
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:47 PM   #17
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I'm so excited to see discussion on this!!!

I will be more involved in the discussion when I get to a computer.

I'm glad to know some people are thinking about this. I got my diving certification at a local pool knowing I was going on a cruise. I was finally able to dive a real reef and it had me thinking about the ethics of fish keeping. Especially collection methods, the effects on the environment , and transportation. I cannot imagine how many fish die in or because of mass transport.

Also while diving I saw this lady yank a coral off of the reef thinking she could take it home. Natural reefs are quickly dying. As a result I'm truly struggling with how to ethically, efficiently, and fiscally be responsible with stocking my FOWLR. my freshwater fish I don't worry about as much since many come from local breeders and my *dirty* water goes in the garden.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:41 PM   #18
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It's so hard to watch coral reefs being abused! I was snorkeling in Bali with my mom and two teenage dudes offered to show us some spots, we were enjoying the amazing reef when I saw the guys standing on these soft corals (whatever they were, kinda soft noodle things) that were shaped like mushrooms about 5 feet below water level.

I was so PISSSSSED! The darn things were smushed and flattened so bad!

Btw I get just as furious watching students littering up my block here in the USA, not making a comment on the Balinese in any way, that's just where I happened to snorkel. In Thailand I was given bread by the hotel to feed the fish, in retrospect probably not an ideal food!
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh
It's so hard to watch coral reefs being abused! I was snorkeling in Bali with my mom and two teenage dudes offered to show us some spots, we were enjoying the amazing reef when I saw the guys standing on these soft corals (whatever they were, kinda soft noodle things) that were shaped like mushrooms about 5 feet below water level.

I was so PISSSSSED! The darn things were smushed and flattened so bad!

Btw I get just as furious watching students littering up my block here in the USA, not making a comment on the Balinese in any way, that's just where I happened to snorkel. In Thailand I was given bread by the hotel to feed the fish, in retrospect probably not an ideal food!
Yea when I was snorkeling off the Florida keys I seen these two guys terrorizing what I think was a lobster. It was up in a cave and just the long feelers on his head were visible. They were pulling on them and jabbing a stick up into the hole. There was another lady that started touching coral even though on the boat they made it very clear your not to touch it. Well this lady unwittingly grabbed a piece of fire coral. Lmao.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:00 PM   #20
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That's why I think frag swaps are about the greatest thing ever. And I do not believe entrance should be charged. Should be free.
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