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Old 07-07-2012, 04:33 PM   #21
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Good point, I think that's a popular misconception with wild caught but in my experience they are drastically hardier than captive breed. I'm sure the daily struggles in the wild have a higher risk value than the lazy life in our tanks. My biggest challenges has always been acclimating to processed foods and overcoming their shyness, once that's done there really are no differences.
Another factor I thought of is that nature is the expert at culling so by the time a fish makes it to my net its already passed through a gauntlet of "survival of the fittest"-esque checkpoints.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:04 PM   #22
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Another factor I thought of is that nature is the expert at culling so by the time a fish makes it to my net its already passed through a gauntlet of "survival of the fittest"-esque checkpoints.
Then from your net or another collectors net to my tank where the fittest are kept in the best environment possible to attempt breeding and adding them into the "fish culture" in these states that don't have a decent native variety.

On the topic of getting them used to a new diet. I've found with my sheepshead pupfish, whom were only fed live cultures by the collector took to "regular" foods such as flake and pellets rather quickly. I soaked the pellets in a little tank water and a drop or two of garlic juice and BAM, they went insane. Since I haven't started on culturing my own micro-worms yet (still not quite sure how to do it) they do get frozen foods and my home-made food, which are gone in a matter of seconds. Think inch long sharks in a feeding frenzy!

I think part of the issue at hand with wild vs captive bred is that we mostly we all raised that a wild animal should be left in the wild, for example people who keep exotics like tigers, bears, wolves etc and find they are harder to care for than a house cat/dog. While I can agree to that to some extent, there does need to be an influx of fresh bloodlines to keep certain genetic issues from showing up. Like the in-breeding of guppies. How many times do you see them with crooked backs, stunted finnage, missing fins, etc.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:09 PM   #23
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Ethically speaking....

1.) To remove an animal from it's native habitat is unethical. To use an animal for the sole purpose of amusement or pleasure is unethical. ( Sea World for example )

2.) Captive breeding is unethical, but in the case of a species becoming almost extinct might persuade this argument,but then...should we release them back after such time as extinction doesn't seem likely?

Of course you only mentioned "ethics" so that's how I'm approaching it.

Live animals for a hobby is questionable. The only reason we don't question it is because we see ourselves highest on the food chain, invincible and the most intelligent.

I'll question the last of those three...
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:16 PM   #24
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Ethical/unethical by what standard though? I think that's the crux of the debate.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:22 PM   #25
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By that line of thinking, strict Veganism is the only acceptable lifestyle. Fish aren't human, so treating them by the same ethical standards we so humans isn't a reasonable way to go about it.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:15 PM   #26
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Ethically we do things every day that shouldn't be done.

Driving causes pollution.

Flushing the toilet puts unknown hormones into water systems, some of this can find it's way back into rivers, oceans, lakes etc.

Advancement in medicine would not be where it is today if it weren't for the unfortunate sacrifices of testing on animals. (Although I do have an idea on how to avoid animal testing altogether)

Turning on your T.V., running your household, charging your cell phone, anything involved with the usage of electricity puts a drain on resources and leaves a carbon footprint.

Eating in general could be called unethical. Pure vegans don't eat meat of any type, but they do kill plants. Us omnivores eat everything, so we're killing plant and animal.

Filling our tanks puts a strain on fresh water supplies.

Cross breeding franken-fish like the blood parrot, breeding fish for certain deformities like the balloon mollies and rams.

Pretty much anything we as humans do can be considered unethical by at least 6 religions/beliefs that are based on nature instead of one omnipotent being.

So I'm sorry if someone thinks that by me having wild collected fish in my tanks is unethical, but I am giving those fish a fighting chance compared to what they would have in the wild with us bipedal apes running around ruining their natural habitat.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:23 PM   #27
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Ethically speaking....

2.) Captive breeding is unethical, but in the case of a species becoming almost extinct might persuade this argument,but then...should we release them back after such time as extinction doesn't seem likely?
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There are always shades of gray. By "wild caught" are we talking about first person fish collection or the standard wild caught supply chains that are primarily responsible for the illusion that wild caught fish are weak and prone to disease?

IMO, calling captive breeding unethical is a bit off. We don't breed them. They breed when their needs to reproduce are met. Naturally. Now, hormone inducements in farmed fish is a different story. Like I said, shades of gray.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:08 AM   #28
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They should preserve wildlife. Protect endangered species. People shouldn't be able to have everything they want.taking animal from wildlife for decorating is not done. It's like getting imprisoned for the rest of your life while innocent.

At my lfs I ask if it's captive bred, otherwise I won't buy. It's just unnecessary, with nowadays technology we can breed everything.

And it's bullshot that bred species Are weaker, if you just mix the right fish with eachother, and the breeders add fresh lines now and then, the customers don't need to buy willdcatched fish
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:16 AM   #29
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with nowadays technology we can breed everything.

False.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:18 AM   #30
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Well alot of the fish can be breeded. Those we cant should be left where they belong
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