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Old 07-07-2012, 12:54 AM   #1
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Ethical Question Time: Wild Caught or Captive Breed?

It's been awhile since we've had a real discussion in this section, so today the ethical question came up again about my decision to keep and breed wild caught or first generation fish. This comes up with regards to collecting and potentially harming wild life areas or hunting fish into extinction, my view on this is that there is far more harm being done by habitat destruction and climate change than wild caught fish collecting. Most south and central american countries have laws on wild caught fish from quanities and seasons or times of collection. The UICN has a list of endangered fish that are illegal for exportation, most counties follow this with the exception of some of far eastern areas in Asia.

For me personally the opportunity and challenge to breed wild caught fish is the highest reward possible. This has numerous benefits like to help introduce new species not commonly seen and more importantly adding pure fish into the overly dilluted gene pool, this action perpetuates our hobby ensuring future generations of fish keepers will have access to quality fish. Now granted there are difficulties like transitioning to processed food, shyness or other odd characteristics, potentional health problems, and super aggresive behavior but the rewards are greater than the risks in my opinion.

So I would like to hear everyone else's opinions on wild caught vs captive breed, let's be civil and have a quality discussion without this getting thread locked.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:22 AM   #2
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Couldn't agree more with you. Mainly "the introduction to not commonly seen species". As you said many SA species. I'll use cichlids as that's what I'm most familiar with. Showing a wild caught Trimac may sway people away from other hybrid species such as the flowerhorn. IMO there is no contest the Trimac is one of my all time fav fish and one of the best looking.

I wish I had a tank big enough to house a mated pair of adult dovii I would with out a doubt go with wild caught.

I would also love a mated pair of bared Midas and this is actually a possibility for me with my 125. Again I would absolutely go with wild caught to help introduce my area to a very cool and unseen version of one of my fav genus. as breeding them like you said would be greatly rewarding.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:03 AM   #3
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My opinion is short and sweet. I think it's cruel to take something out of the wild and place it in captivity.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Alia
My opinion is short and sweet. I think it's cruel to take something out of the wild and place it in captivity.
Not to argue but it would a had to happen at some point for all of us at some point, or none of us would be in the hobby.

I do respect your opinion. And I do see the value of what you said. 👍
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Lady_Alia View Post
My opinion is short and sweet. I think it's cruel to take something out of the wild and place it in captivity.
On the flipside, without wild caught specimens in captivity, we would have no hobby. To take it a step further, ANY new introduction into the hobby is going to require wild specimens. Are you saying that we should never introduce new species into the hobby? What if the purpose of the introductions is to preserve species that are highly at risk from habitat destruction, overfishing, overcollection, etc?
American Cichlid Association - ACA C.A.R.E.S. Preservation Program
http://www.ibcbettas.org/smp/
http://livebearers.org/modules/content/index.php?id=10
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:55 AM   #6
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I think captive bred is best and we should only take a fish out of the wild if it can't be bred in captivity. I am an experienced aquarist and there are some fish that I know won't be easy. Wild fish are difficult to acclimate and often harbor diseases.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:01 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by bettaowner
I think captive bred is best and we should only take a fish out of the wild if it can't be bred in captivity. I am an experienced aquarist and there are some fish that I know won't be easy. Wild fish are difficult to acclimate and often harbor diseases.
Even then you still need that wild caught to begin breeding in captivity and after that without new blood being introduced periodically atleast. then the species as a whole in captivity would become weaker. Don't get me wrong if captive bred is available especially in SW I opt for that but new blood is needed For the hobby to continue
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Lady_Alia View Post
My opinion is short and sweet. I think it's cruel to take something out of the wild and place it in captivity.
The other big issue for me is what the breeders are doing to "enhance" certain physical or color traits. Inbreeding and over inbreeding usually cause recessive genes (usually bad characteristics) to become expressed when in the wild they would remain recessive or be killed and are less likely to breed. The perfect example of this is the electric blue jack dempsey, here is a fish that is line bred for a recessive gene and the result is 80-90%(probably higher) don't make it past the juvenile stage...is that cruel? The point is so many of fish we keep no longer look like they did when they were in the wild, nature has a better method to bring out coloration even my beloved new life spectrum and loads of water changes can't compete.

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Don't get me wrong if captive bred is available especially in SW I opt for that but new blood is needed For the hobby to continue
I've been a freshwater guy for 30 years and have never really given much thought to the salty side of this question, but something I would be interested in hearing.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #9
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Interesting topic.
My initial thought is that captive bred should be the standard, let wild fish remain in the wild. I understand new specimens etc do I'm not saying absolute, but excluding some minor exceptions, fish for our hobby should be captive bred.

One reason is that so many people get into this hobby with little knowledge of how to keep fish. Even the experienced experts will agree that wild caught is a whole new ball game with additional challenges. Why take a fish from its wild habitat and risk losing it by adding it to a tank.

My 2 cents....
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:48 AM   #10
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Do I really think that it is a good idea for people to take fish out of the wild? Eh, probably not. However if they are doing with certain procedures and do not deplete the fish population to a point of no return I have no issue. It's just when they whole, 'Hey look I've never seen that before and no one has bred it yet, let's go collect every darn fish in the pond to sell it' thing that I have an issue with.

If we can breed them, then we should keep them. I don't think that it is really a good idea to keep fish that are impossible for anyone to breed. But if people are able to breed them then yes go ahead and keep them, and get some wild ones for refreshing the genes.

But then again all that's just my opinion, and it's willing to change if I read something that opens my eyes more
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