So now that we've all agreed (( for the most part )) and.. we have taken the simple question of " will you sign the petition " to.. a drawn out conversation about science and theology... the fact still remains that revhtree has no excuse so I win! 
Evolution?
- Thread starter dralarms
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revhtree
Aquarium Advice Addict
ROFLMBO!! Hit me like a ton of bricks!!
PS. Rach101....I know you are but what am I?????
PS. To keep this post on topic I will say this. I love you all no matter how you believe!!
I believe its mainly just us going off topic... So right.. Love every and such, peace, love, happyness without the use of drugs and foreign objects, and every thing will be fine!
gotta go make sure my fish are okay before i raise temp (( ich ))
ps. Im a winner, so your a well... loser?!
gotta go make sure my fish are okay before i raise temp (( ich ))
ps. Im a winner, so your a well... loser?!
Melody
Aquarium Advice Addict
I kinda believe in both...
Think about it, if 1 human year is like 7 dog years. Then how many human years is in 1 God year?
I also believe that God created earth, but he added a little at a time. may have been one day to him, but it was many millions of years to the western calender.
*i have much more to say, but am shutting up to avoid any substance from hitting the fan*
Think about it, if 1 human year is like 7 dog years. Then how many human years is in 1 God year?
I also believe that God created earth, but he added a little at a time. may have been one day to him, but it was many millions of years to the western calender.
*i have much more to say, but am shutting up to avoid any substance from hitting the fan*
ReefRaff
Aquarium Advice Addict
Amen.
dralarms
Aquarium Advice Addict
I am truely proud of all of you. 5 pages and not 1 "hateful" word or tone. My original post was just trying to get more people to sign the petition so that evolution if taught would be taught as theory. I didn't mean for this to become a debate on God vs evolution, however you have done it very nicely. 
. If everyone got along as much as we do the world would be a better place.
. If everyone got along as much as we do the world would be a better place.
BillyZ
Aquarium Advice Addict
two quick comments for my last thoughts on this.
Amen! I respect greatly someones full spirit behind something. Be it their faith, their family, their career, anything. There is never a need to excuse it, nor should anyone ever ask you to excuse your faith and beliefs. But I do ask that you don't force your beliefs or faith upon me or my family. No one has that right.
So then.... which one? The christian theory of creation I'm assuming? What about a Buddhist's? A Muslim's? An Indian's? To that degree, which nation? Seneca? Navaho? What of a Satanist's theory of creation? I would imagine it would have many similarities as the book of Genesis. However, I get the feeling those who are against the teaching of evolution would also not want anyone teaching a satanist's view on creation. I can't even begin to count how many I've missed in that list. If you're going to teach one theory of creationism, you have to teach them all (which I would NOT be against) But you have to be realistic. Given the number of religions in this world it is simply not feasible to expect a publicly funded school to dedicate that level of resources and time to teach them all.
Then why are we teaching the theory of evolution? The theory of Evolution is science. It is based on measurable, tangible evidence. Just like the theory of relativity. Should we not teach relativity becuase its only a theory? This is what seperates science from philosophy. Please don't take this the wrong way, and remember that I do believe in god. Philosophy can't be mandated in a publicly funded school. And to slap a sticker on a book to single out a single scientific theory is absurd. Why not put a sticker on the book stressing that the theory of relativity is only a theory. You don't have to because that's the definition of the word Theory.
The petition linked to on the first page is asking to make it OK to stress christian creationism in the classroom. (read more than just the page thats linked. The headline right now on the real homepage is accusing the UN of "developing massive rings of child rape and pornography ") I will NOT support any organization that makes such ignorant and blind accusations in an effort to promote a single religions agenda. Again, I ask that you not sign the petition and respect the FACT that there are more than just christians and athiasts in this country.
I'll go in a corner and breathe for a little while now.
revhtree said:
Amen! I respect greatly someones full spirit behind something. Be it their faith, their family, their career, anything. There is never a need to excuse it, nor should anyone ever ask you to excuse your faith and beliefs. But I do ask that you don't force your beliefs or faith upon me or my family. No one has that right.
So then.... which one? The christian theory of creation I'm assuming? What about a Buddhist's? A Muslim's? An Indian's? To that degree, which nation? Seneca? Navaho? What of a Satanist's theory of creation? I would imagine it would have many similarities as the book of Genesis. However, I get the feeling those who are against the teaching of evolution would also not want anyone teaching a satanist's view on creation. I can't even begin to count how many I've missed in that list. If you're going to teach one theory of creationism, you have to teach them all (which I would NOT be against) But you have to be realistic. Given the number of religions in this world it is simply not feasible to expect a publicly funded school to dedicate that level of resources and time to teach them all.
Then why are we teaching the theory of evolution? The theory of Evolution is science. It is based on measurable, tangible evidence. Just like the theory of relativity. Should we not teach relativity becuase its only a theory? This is what seperates science from philosophy. Please don't take this the wrong way, and remember that I do believe in god. Philosophy can't be mandated in a publicly funded school. And to slap a sticker on a book to single out a single scientific theory is absurd. Why not put a sticker on the book stressing that the theory of relativity is only a theory. You don't have to because that's the definition of the word Theory.
The petition linked to on the first page is asking to make it OK to stress christian creationism in the classroom. (read more than just the page thats linked. The headline right now on the real homepage is accusing the UN of "developing massive rings of child rape and pornography ") I will NOT support any organization that makes such ignorant and blind accusations in an effort to promote a single religions agenda. Again, I ask that you not sign the petition and respect the FACT that there are more than just christians and athiasts in this country.
I'll go in a corner and breathe for a little while now.
BillyZ
Aquarium Advice Addict
I apologize if my comments seem heated. It was the viewing of the rest of the "reclaiming america" website i think has me steamed.
It's no more theirs than it is mine.
Everyone have a great weekend! I promise to be much more friendly on monday!!
It's no more theirs than it is mine.
Everyone have a great weekend! I promise to be much more friendly on monday!!
revhtree
Aquarium Advice Addict
No winning against you Billy. I GRACEFULLY bow out.
God, science and evolution can coexist. The wonderful thing about scientific knowledge is that it's perpetually tested. It is much easier to prove scientific thought than religious. One is purely physical and the other is purely faithful. In addition, noone can force anyone to believe anything they don't want to believe. The body of scientific knowledge requires an open mind for acceptance. If one chooses not to accept it, that's fine with me.
IMO misconceptions about evolution abound in this thread. First it isn't the theory of evolution. It was Darwins theory of evolution. The scientific community at the time coined that phrase because in his book "Origin of the Species", Darwin based his opinions on observation alone. Science requires much more than observation to be accepted. Thus the word theory was used at the time, and the phrase stuck.
Again, my opinion, but the body of scientific knowledge supporting evolution is vast. The geologic record is simply there. The evidence has been accepted based not on paleontology alone, but on our collective knowledge of chemistry, biology, geology, and even astronomy.
Just like it isn't heresy to believe the earth revolves around the sun, it isn't heresy to believe in evolution. Rather it's a confirmation that Gods hand in creation is miraculous indeed. JMO
IMO misconceptions about evolution abound in this thread. First it isn't the theory of evolution. It was Darwins theory of evolution. The scientific community at the time coined that phrase because in his book "Origin of the Species", Darwin based his opinions on observation alone. Science requires much more than observation to be accepted. Thus the word theory was used at the time, and the phrase stuck.
Again, my opinion, but the body of scientific knowledge supporting evolution is vast. The geologic record is simply there. The evidence has been accepted based not on paleontology alone, but on our collective knowledge of chemistry, biology, geology, and even astronomy.
Just like it isn't heresy to believe the earth revolves around the sun, it isn't heresy to believe in evolution. Rather it's a confirmation that Gods hand in creation is miraculous indeed. JMO
QTOFFER
Aquarium Advice Addict
This is what the sticker in question says:
"This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."
I think the sticker is superfluous. Chapter 1 of any good general science text will contain a discussion about testing hypotheses using the scientific method. If slapping a sticker on the science textbook will make people feel less threatened by it, how about this:
"This textbook contains material on biological science. Biological science as we now know it consists of many hypotheses that are subject to continuous testing and modification. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."
Not even the most die-hard evolutionary biologist could find fault with that statement.
This article may be of interest. It was written by Douglas Futuyma, a world renowned evolutionary biologist/entomologist. Dr Futuyma was my mentor in college.
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/futuyma_theory.html
"This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."
I think the sticker is superfluous. Chapter 1 of any good general science text will contain a discussion about testing hypotheses using the scientific method. If slapping a sticker on the science textbook will make people feel less threatened by it, how about this:
"This textbook contains material on biological science. Biological science as we now know it consists of many hypotheses that are subject to continuous testing and modification. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."
Not even the most die-hard evolutionary biologist could find fault with that statement.
This article may be of interest. It was written by Douglas Futuyma, a world renowned evolutionary biologist/entomologist. Dr Futuyma was my mentor in college.
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/futuyma_theory.html
JG
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I spend quite a bit of time with my classes at the beginning of each school year discussing the difference between a "scientific question" and a "belief" You cannot set up an experiment to prove or disprove a belief and therefore questions of religion are not scientific. This does not mean that a person's religious beliefs are "right or wrong , good or bad", it simply means that they cannot be addressed through scientific methods. For example, if you believe that you will have bad luck on Friday the 13th, I really cannot disprove or prove your belief.
My second point is that a great many of the "great scientists" , Father Giodormo Bruno, Galileo Newton, Einstein, etc. were extremely religious and viewed their scientific inquiry as a method of understanding their creator better. Einstein had certain reservation about quantum because " God does not play dice with the universe."
My third point is that evolution is a theory. A theory atttempts to offer an explanation of the nature of the universe based upon evidence. It is not by definition a Scientific Law, but is a very strong theory. I tell my students that a teacher's job is to present the evidence, their job is to decide which they will accept. However, when they are tested on the material, the answers given must address the theory and the evidence that accompanies it. THis is to ensure that they do understand the theory and the evidence and they they will then be better equipped to make their choices.
As a science teacher, my job is to present scientific theory, law, etc. I am not a theology teacher ( although I do read quite a bit on my own). Now if the states require that creationalism be taught as part of the science curriculum ( again I disagree as questions theology are not scientific questions) whose creation story do we teach? Only Judeo-Christian? How about Hindu Creation? Perhaps Navajo creation stories?
As I tell my students, I really don't care whether you choose to accept scientific theories or choose to accept a religious belief system. What I care about is that you are educated enough to make that decision. Church's provide the info for theology, public schools provide the info for the scientific theory.
If we mandate that schools cannot teach science or must add a disclaimer, then are we really equipping our children to think for themselves. I maintain that if your religious beliefs are that strong, nothing I say will affect your belief system.
JG
My second point is that a great many of the "great scientists" , Father Giodormo Bruno, Galileo Newton, Einstein, etc. were extremely religious and viewed their scientific inquiry as a method of understanding their creator better. Einstein had certain reservation about quantum because " God does not play dice with the universe."
My third point is that evolution is a theory. A theory atttempts to offer an explanation of the nature of the universe based upon evidence. It is not by definition a Scientific Law, but is a very strong theory. I tell my students that a teacher's job is to present the evidence, their job is to decide which they will accept. However, when they are tested on the material, the answers given must address the theory and the evidence that accompanies it. THis is to ensure that they do understand the theory and the evidence and they they will then be better equipped to make their choices.
As a science teacher, my job is to present scientific theory, law, etc. I am not a theology teacher ( although I do read quite a bit on my own). Now if the states require that creationalism be taught as part of the science curriculum ( again I disagree as questions theology are not scientific questions) whose creation story do we teach? Only Judeo-Christian? How about Hindu Creation? Perhaps Navajo creation stories?
As I tell my students, I really don't care whether you choose to accept scientific theories or choose to accept a religious belief system. What I care about is that you are educated enough to make that decision. Church's provide the info for theology, public schools provide the info for the scientific theory.
If we mandate that schools cannot teach science or must add a disclaimer, then are we really equipping our children to think for themselves. I maintain that if your religious beliefs are that strong, nothing I say will affect your belief system.
JG
deli_conker
Aquarium Advice Addict
I hate to break this to you, but online petitions don't mean anything. Petitions on paper with signatures and addresses do.justmy2cents said:
I really don't know what I believe at this point in my life. I was brought up Christian, but I don't have the level of faith that my mother does. I'm too busy trying to figure out what happens when we die to worry about how it all started.
I always thought the the theories could coexist (as others have already mentioned). For some time after the big bang, the universe was very bright in different ways (gamma rays, x-rays, infrared). Physics as we know it break down the closer we get to the moment of the big bang. Maybe if they actually solve it (unified force theory) then we'll know (or least have an idea about God).
Clown Monarch
Aquarium Advice FINatic
ReefRaff said:
I didn't learn about "Evolution" until a college course covered it briefly, although I would have liked to have been exposed to it much earlier. We also learned it as a theory. It was also discussed in a science course, not a history course, so it was understood that there are limits to the scientific knowledge of the human mind.
The wife and I were reading about corals and fish last night and were amazed at how little we actually know about marine life. Much of it is theory without facts. If they had to place a sticker on my "Aquarium Corals" book for every theoretical statement made within it's pages, the book would weigh an extra 5 lbs.
dralarms
Aquarium Advice Addict
ROTFLOL:
JG
Aquarium Advice FINatic
[
>.> Soo.. your a teacher... ~ coughs ~.. Happen to know a Mrs.Young?... happen to uh.. have all the answers to last nights homework..? ~ coughs ~[/quote]
Ok - yesss... I know Mrs. Young - so which one are you ?
>.> Soo.. your a teacher... ~ coughs ~.. Happen to know a Mrs.Young?... happen to uh.. have all the answers to last nights homework..? ~ coughs ~[/quote]
Ok - yesss... I know Mrs. Young - so which one are you ?
JG
Aquarium Advice FINatic
1. a
2. b
3. c
4. 42 ( the answer to the ultimate question)
5-57 All D
I give ... how are you connected to NH and Mrs. Young?
2. b
3. c
4. 42 ( the answer to the ultimate question)
5-57 All D
I give ... how are you connected to NH and Mrs. Young?
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