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Old 04-01-2014, 03:25 AM   #131
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It started off the chart but I worry there was some error because then it was suddenly 7.4 for a long time.

I remember when cycling a test bucket a few months ago, the pH crashed just like this. Literally overnight. I was actually expecting the crash, I just wasn't sure where it would occur. It will probably drop quite a bit tomorrow but not crash all the way since there is only 4ppm ammonia left to eat right now.
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:38 AM   #132
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Just think, if we knew the dkh level at which kh stopped buffering acid we could have used math to calculate exactly how much baking soda you would have needed at the beginning to protect against ph swings. If we know that the alkalinity used to get 1ppm ammonia ---->nitrate is 7.14. I think that was to get it to nitrate? Or was in just to nitrite and does this take in to consideration the acid produced as well as alkalinity used?

Would have been a serious math exercise though
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:54 AM   #133
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Do you think the crash is normal or 'extreme cycling'? I guess I've always had ph slide gradually but it would have been buffered a bit by water changes. If it can crash like that I'm a bit worried as I was thinking you could kind of start with an ammonia level and come back 4 weeks later to a cycled tank - rethinking this
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:06 AM   #134
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I think fishless cycling is in a lot more danger for a ph crash as these levels are pretty high.

Maybe 1 dose of 4ppm then leave it would be enough?
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:16 PM   #135
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I think fishless cycling is in a lot more danger for a ph crash as these levels are pretty high.

Maybe 1 dose of 4ppm then leave it would be enough?


I can't recall all the details but I added 4ppm & pH went below 7.0 from a ph of 8.2 to start. When i did my other tanks i added sodium bicarbonate not to have the same pH dip.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:44 PM   #136
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Scratch that, it was back2back once ammonia was at 0
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:01 PM   #137
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Scratch that, it was back2back once ammonia was at 0

What do you mean back to back? You kept topping up ammonia?
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:12 PM   #138
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When I first started the fishless cycle & ammonia finally was processed to 0, I dosed it back to 4ppm. Not back to back per say, but what i meant i wasnt one dose of 4ppm ammonia for the cycle.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:12 PM   #139
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I don't think one dose of 4ppm ammonia would be enough to cycle a tank to any appreciable level. It would probably only cycle it to .5 or something so you will just have to dose more ammonia later.

Caliban - that would be some very helpful math. BUT you also don't want the pH to start off too HIGH. I think there has to be some dosing of baking soda in there. It's really not a big deal though. I think this method would require LESS testing and dosing.

Delapool - I'm not sure why the baking soda specifically sounds like a dealbreaker to you - the only thing you need to "redose" in this whole experiment is sodium bicarbonate, and only once. How is that so much worse than dosing ammonia all the time?


I want to reduce a lot of the "thinking". Dosing back up to 4ppm all the time. Testing ammonia every day and calculating how much more to add to dose it back up.
What is wrong with just dosing it and basically forgetting it? Sure, you have to test ammonia and pH every couple days. But the cycle doesn't FAIL if there is a pH crash and you are a day late noticing. Nitrification picks right back up when you bolster the pH back up.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:17 PM   #140
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I don't think one dose of 4ppm ammonia would be enough to cycle a tank to any appreciable level. It would probably only cycle it to .5 or something so you will just have to dose more ammonia later.

Caliban - that would be some very helpful math. BUT you also don't want the pH to start off too HIGH. I think there has to be some dosing of baking soda in there. It's really not a big deal though. I think this method would require LESS testing and dosing.

Delapool - I'm not sure why the baking soda specifically sounds like a dealbreaker to you - the only thing you need to "redose" in this whole experiment is sodium bicarbonate, and only once. How is that so much worse than dosing ammonia all the time?


I want to reduce a lot of the "thinking". Dosing back up to 4ppm all the time. Testing ammonia every day and calculating how much more to add to dose it back up.
What is wrong with just dosing it and basically forgetting it? Sure, you have to test ammonia and pH every couple days. But the cycle doesn't FAIL if there is a pH crash and you are a day late noticing. Nitrification picks right back up when you bolster the pH back up.

How come 4ppm wouldn't be enough? I'm thinking the bacteria would grow to a level to tackle this and just go for dormant again.

No I know I wasn't specifically saying to use it for the experiment. It was just something I was pondering on. More specifically. At what point does dkh stop buffering ph? There's obviously going to be variables but surely it could bd estimated or calculated.
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