Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Community Forum > Aquaria Off-Topic
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 04-02-2014, 10:24 AM   #171
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Caliban07's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by threnjen View Post
"Baking soda rests around 8.4 on the pH scale, slightly above the neutral mark of 7. The effect of baking soda will be influenced by the current pH of your water--you will not be able to raise the pH above 8.4

This is true. Calcium bicarbonate with hold much higher than this. Above 9 I believe so it's not a good idea to use this in large amounts.

Apparently, you can't overdose sodium bicarbonate.

What happens if you combine calcium carbonates from the tap with baking soda?
__________________

__________________
Caliban07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 10:31 AM   #172
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Caliban07's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 5,313
I just read this

So, when you mix calcium carbonate and sodium bicarb, you get: Carbon dioxide gas, calcium carbonate solid, water and sodium and chloride ions.

I'm just thinking what happens if hard tap water calcium carbonates are mixed with the baking soda. Both try to raise. The ph to their desired level of stability so I'm thinking there must be a reaction of some sort. Or am I way off here or getting to deep.
__________________

__________________
Caliban07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 11:45 AM   #173
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Caliban07's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban07 View Post
2.3 grams according to that site.

18.4 grams will produce 8dkh for 76 litres.

If this site is correct.

And here I got 18.4g which is close to your 17ish grams.

I think we were on to something then but the thread changed course.
__________________
Caliban07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:31 PM   #174
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
threnjen's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban07 View Post
From post number 25 I started to think about this and post 30 I mentioned that we would have to account for the acid produced as well as alkalinity used.

You can still have the Nobel prize but you could just give a shout out to me when your receiving the award
I was talking about the Nobel prize for the kH stall thing re:newbies, not stealing your thunder on how much baking soda to add in for set it and forget it :P

No one else thought the kH thing was mega significant??! I'm talking about when we diagnose the newbies.
"check your pH, did it crash... ok add some fish flakes.... do a water change... UGH WHY IS IT STALLED" I have never once thought about the kH. kH isn't pH so who CARES what their pH (as long as it's not TOO low). kH!!!! I have never seen anyone mention or account for this when diagnosing cycle stalls. No one even has this test. We just need to tell the newbies to toss in baking soda when they are stalled to replenish their kH. The bacteria probably just ate all the alkalinity.

As for the amounts I offered being higher than the ppm (add 14mg for 10ppm etc) - it is more because not all of baking soda is carbonate. And we're concerned only with the carbonate portion when dosing. But it sounds like my math might be wrong? Since just above you said some site told you 18.x grams whereas my math would give 17.x
__________________
threnjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:32 PM   #175
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
threnjen's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban07 View Post
I just read this

So, when you mix calcium carbonate and sodium bicarb, you get: Carbon dioxide gas, calcium carbonate solid, water and sodium and chloride ions.

I'm just thinking what happens if hard tap water calcium carbonates are mixed with the baking soda. Both try to raise. The ph to their desired level of stability so I'm thinking there must be a reaction of some sort. Or am I way off here or getting to deep.
Nooooo clue on that one lol
Do you think it will go over 8.4?
__________________
threnjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:49 PM   #176
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
threnjen's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,611
Caliban if after my clarification you're still saying that you tried to tell me all this already, you can have the nobel prize, don't worry
__________________
threnjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:49 PM   #177
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Caliban07's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by threnjen View Post
I was talking about the Nobel prize for the kH stall thing re:newbies, not stealing your thunder on how much baking soda to add in for set it and forget it :P

No one else thought the kH thing was mega significant??! I'm talking about when we diagnose the newbies.
"check your pH, did it crash... ok add some fish flakes.... do a water change... UGH WHY IS IT STALLED" I have never once thought about the kH. kH isn't pH so who CARES what their pH (as long as it's not TOO low). kH!!!! I have never seen anyone mention or account for this when diagnosing cycle stalls. No one even has this test. We just need to tell the newbies to toss in baking soda when they are stalled to replenish their kH. The bacteria probably just ate all the alkalinity.

As for the amounts I offered being higher than the ppm (add 14mg for 10ppm etc) - it is more because not all of baking soda is carbonate. And we're concerned only with the carbonate portion when dosing. But it sounds like my math might be wrong? Since just above you said some site told you 18.x grams whereas my math would give 17.x

Yes ph is the direct stall of the cycle. It is hugely important. In a way kh doesn't stall the cycle, ph does. However in order to ensure this doesn't happen, kh needs to be maintained obviously. I mean if a cycle is stalled you ask what the ph is and if it's too low you ask them to add baking soda. There's nothing new there?

Sorry I know I'm coming off as a smart arse here but it's always been understood that alkalinity is eaten in my mind anyway. Of course it's only come to light in the past month or so but that's why I insisted on a set and forget earlier on but you said ph would go to high which would be correct if we used calcium bicarb.

According to a site I looked at earlier ph will not go above 8.4 when adding baking soda because it is selfish and that is the optimum ph level to keep it stable.

I don't know if you have read this but here is a good site that explains how a buffer works in more detail

http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/und...buffering.html

As for the math. I'd rather go with yours.
__________________
Caliban07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:51 PM   #178
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Caliban07's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 5,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by threnjen View Post
Caliban if after my clarification you're still saying that you tried to tell me all this already, you can have the nobel prize, don't worry

Lol we can have half each. These threads would not be possible without your work.
__________________
Caliban07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:56 PM   #179
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Caliban07's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 5,313
I've been trying to find out how much acid is produced during 1ppm to nitrate conversion but I think we are delving on to the realms of the unexplored.

But then again, you have better search engine skillz
__________________
Caliban07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2014, 01:58 PM   #180
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
threnjen's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,611
Except that you can have pH higher than "stall level" and be out of kH, can't you?
You can have pH 7.2 water that has 0 kH, or is that incorrect?

Hypothesized example: Let's say you start at pH 8 but only 3 kH. cycling for a while, yada yada yada yada, pH has dropped to 7 but the kH was all eaten. Water is now 0kH even though pH is still . Cycle stalls. Is this not a possiblity? I realize I might still be failing to grasp how this works.
Is a pH crash to 6.0 GUARANTEED if there is 0 kH and the bacteria are still trying to work, no matter what the pH was before?
__________________

__________________
threnjen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cycle, rim

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
nova extreme pro HO t5 vs Nova extreme t5 hackteck General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 10 04-10-2011 08:20 PM
fishless cycle experiment Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 33 09-05-2006 12:30 PM
want to experiment--need advice kk_thomas05 Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 8 06-15-2003 11:46 AM
dehumidifier water experiment Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 3 04-20-2003 12:30 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.