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Old 08-26-2004, 02:42 PM   #121
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I'm being misunderstood...

I am not saying that everybody who gets married has something to do with a religion.
I am saying that the concept of marriage is based in religion.

Atari/ferret, please let me know if this clears up my preceeding posts.
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Old 08-26-2004, 02:45 PM   #122
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I disagree. See my previous post, I tacked it on while you were replying I think. Originally, marriage was pretty much about ownership. This was back when government and religion were practically the same thing, so I suppose you could say that both sides are right. It was both a religious and legal concept, but the meaning was far different.
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Old 08-26-2004, 02:57 PM   #123
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I never thought of it that way.. so are we saying that marriage is older than religion?
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Old 08-26-2004, 03:05 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret
It was both a religious and legal concept... (bold added for emphasis)
That's what I've been saying. As far as the time frame you're speaking of, I would say it was more "political maneuvering" rather than "a legal concept". Generally speaking, one family marries into another for some sort of gain; usually in station or money. The people getting married were usually innocent bystanders (so to speak).

The concept of marriage is born from religion. And it's the people that practice religion (in whatever form it may take) that are going to be the ones that will argue what can and cannot happen with regards to it.

It is something akin to me coming over to your place and telling you how to run your household.

I'm not saying one side is right and one is wrong. But I do think that same sex marriage is an oxymoron. They need to come up with an alternative. I think I heard "civil union" mentioned earlier.
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Old 08-26-2004, 03:20 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret
I'd just like to point out everyone keeps saying "the church" and "the religion" ... In the United States, having multiple wives is illegal, but there are some religions that hold this belief. So should this practice be legal or illegal? To some religious groups, its practically a command from God to take many wives and bear many children. (And no, I'm not refering only to the guys out in Utah)
This is irrelevant because it IS illegal. Also these groups are not trying to force this down our collective throats and change policy.
If a gay couple want to live together in a union, that is their own business. Just don't expect the rest of the country to change its laws and basic values to accommodate them.
There are some things that need to be at the core of a society, if you want that society to remain strong. If as a country, we are forced to change laws and core values every time a small group makes a lot of noise, chaos would eventually ensue.
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Old 08-26-2004, 04:29 PM   #126
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So you're suggesting, if same-sex marriage is legalized, this somehow forces people to change their beliefs? Explain to me how this changes anything in your life, how it affects you in the least. And no, explaining to your children why two men are kissing isn't a good excuse: That happens whether or not same-sex marriage is allowed.

I don't care if its called marriage or called "civil union" .. The issue I have with is "marriage" having more rights than "civil union" ..

My personal opinion is that for matters of state and the goverment, ALL unions, including normal religious marriage, should legally be refered to as a "civil union" .. Then as far as the law is concerned, everyone is equal, and you can call it what you will as far as your own beliefs are concerned.
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Old 08-26-2004, 04:35 PM   #127
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All that i was trying to say is tyhat same sex couples should be able to have the rights of a "normal" couple. This should not have to do with religion because this is the legal side of marraige that can and is separated from any form of religion. Just answer. me this, if a same sex couplke get rights regarding spousal benifits and custody of children, how will this efect you or anyone else, besides them? (Besides you thinking it is wrong and that they might go to the bad place )
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Old 08-26-2004, 05:16 PM   #128
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I'm with Quarryshark on this.. it's not as simple as just making a few legal changes that won't affect the rest of us. The implications on the fabric of society and future generations are the big picture that needs to be looked at.
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Old 08-26-2004, 05:39 PM   #129
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[quote="ferret"]So you're suggesting, if same-sex marriage is legalized, this somehow forces people to change their beliefs? Explain to me how this changes anything in your life, how it affects you in the least. And no, explaining to your children why two men are kissing isn't a good excuse: That happens whether or not same-sex marriage is allowed.
quote]

I doesn't (couldn't) force me to change my beliefs, as a law it would force society to accept something that (imo and the opinion of many others) is simply wrong for mutliple reasons already stated.
How does it affect me? Not in a direct way, but (for the last time) I don't appreciate and will not accept it being shoved down my throat!! Not by this group or the media.
As for my children, I will teach them that this is not normal behavior, if that makes me a bigot in your eyes and less than 10% of the population, so be it. BTW ,what I expain to MY children is MY business.
I will not respond to any more of your posts in this thread. IMO with your off the wall questions and replies, you are trying to raise this debate to a level I will not go to. I don't wish to be banned.
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Old 08-26-2004, 05:45 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret

My personal opinion is that for matters of state and the goverment, ALL unions, including normal religious marriage, should legally be refered to as a "civil union" .. Then as far as the law is concerned, everyone is equal, and you can call it what you will as far as your own beliefs are concerned.
OK, one more.
I married my wife....in church.
If they do this, I'm out of here to the Carribean (like I need an excuse).
If we become a country that caters this much to small groups of people, then there is no hope.
Refer back to a previous post about my other pet pieve, political correctness.
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