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Old 08-23-2004, 12:04 PM   #21
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.. and since I consider our media fairly accurate when it comes to foreign affairs,
Surely you just. That media is what tabloids are modeled after. Its the only one more biased that the American media. At Least Tony Blair had it right.
And yes I have read British newspapers...many times.
Sheesh, we don't just have tabloids.. there is such a thing as serious newspapers, and infact I was talking about BBC News anyway. I've seen news channels in the States and the difference between what they tell you and what we get told here is amazing.

The truth of the matter is, no one posting in this thread has any special insider information. All we have is our own political views and opinions, which may or may not be a result of who we choose to believe. Therefore no one can claim to be right or accuse someone else of being wrong. This is no different to a debate about religion when it comes down to it.

Let's face it, no one is gonna convince anyone to change their standpoint here. But how about we respect each others views? You wouldn't like it if someone used words like scumbag or ahole if this was about religion.
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Old 08-23-2004, 12:53 PM   #22
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But how about we respect each others views?
Thats right. Respecting others views in a discussion is what will keep such discussions from degrading to a bunch of namecalling. So far this thread has been within the acceptable limits of this sites rules and regs. Lets keep it that way.
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Old 08-23-2004, 08:49 PM   #23
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Therefore no one can claim to be right or accuse someone else of being wrong.

You can accuse someone of being wrong when there is blatant evidence that what they are saying is a lie... as in Moore's movie, the clip where he holds up the newspaper with the "front page headlines" that are really titles on page 10 of that newspaper. My entire problem with Farenheit 9/11 and the media that they try to deceive. Why do they act so desperate to put down any of the President's ideas, or the right's ideas, or even the recently outspoken Bill Cosby? Why speak of ONE block of protesters at the White House as if there are NO supporters, when the truth is their cameras ignore the TEN blocks of supporters? Why does CNN tell us the Iraqis hate us and want us out of their country, while on Fox News we see happy Iraqis wanting to touch American soldiers- and Iraqi children begging for more candy from soldiers? Is it not logical to see this an know that we freed a people from their murderous dictator? We are not trying to conquer and pillage as the media implies!
So often I hear liberals put down America. So often I hear how everything our government does is a huge mistake. Yet why do they still choose to live here?
If the UK is so much better, go there. If China is so much better, move there.
I'm so sick of the complaining. I think all of us are guilty of ungratefulness. We were not all born into some third world country where our brothers and sisters never made it to 14 because they wasted away from starvation. We're part of a country who can help countries like that!
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:41 PM   #24
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Why does CNN tell us the Iraqis hate us and want us out of their country, while on Fox News we see happy Iraqis wanting to touch American soldiers- and Iraqi children begging for more candy from soldiers?
Because both are true.. I'm not gonna speculate which is the majority view in Iraq because it's impossible to know unless you are there to see for yourself. And even then, it probably depends who you ask.

That's my point, we can only go by what they decide to tell us. Who knows how complete or accurate any information is that we're given. It's really quite frustrating when it comes down to it. Like someone already mentioned, sometimes it's best to seek out news reports from other countries that have no reason for bias... if there really is such a thing.
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:44 PM   #25
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I'd just like to second everything frshwaterfinatc just wrote!!!
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:50 PM   #26
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As far as what goes on in Iraq, you don't know just like I don't know just like probably more then 99% of the people members of this community don't know. There are probably places where the people are thrilled and places that they aren't. I don't think that anyone will argue (well now that I typed I figure someone will) that Iraq will be in the long run better off without Saddam in power. What my biggest gripe, as well as most peoples, is the lies that were told leading up to the war and the attention it has drawn away from the ones responsible for the attacks here. Not to mention the fact more Americans are dying everyday, more after mission accomplished then before. I really can't understand the "Moore lied it wasn't a head line it was on page 10" rationality in knocking someone but the whole he has WMD and we know where they are so lets go to war (and have over 900 Americans die and terrorism is up world wide) lie draws your support. I saw the movie but don't remember what part you are talking about with headlines and what not to be honest with you.


I think if your worried about media deceiving, turn off Fox News. As far left as people say CNN is Fox is MUCH more to the right

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So often I hear liberals put down America. So often I hear how everything our government does is a huge mistake. Yet why do they still choose to live here?

First of all liberal is not a bad word. You are considered a liberal on issues more then likely just like most everyone else. For 8 years we heard nothing but people from the right putting down the government and it's policies? Should they have left? I spent 6 years of my life defending this country and people's rights to speak up about what they think is right or wrong or what ever, and I'll be ****ed if I don't speak my mind about what I feel. People that don't like things and speak up to change them for what they feel is better is the American way. The keep your mouth shut and follow the government obediently seems more suited for China.
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Old 08-23-2004, 10:29 PM   #27
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Off topic but I just remembered reading somewhere that GW's IQ is 99.. anyone know if this is true? I've been trying to find the truth but don't trust the sources I've found so far.
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Old 08-23-2004, 10:48 PM   #28
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That's my point, we can only go by what they decide to tell us. Who knows how complete or accurate any information is that we're given. It's really quite frustrating when it comes down to it. Like someone already mentioned, sometimes it's best to seek out news reports from other countries that have no reason for bias... if there really is such a thing.
Good point. This is the very thing I was trying to say. I believe more of what Fox news reports because they just tell what's happening- it isn't some dreadfully dark and urgent secret. On CNN or ABC, I get the feeling (esp. from Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw) that all their reports carry a very negative undertone when they mention the president or the war. All I hear from them is bad news. On Fox, you hear some good news. And it's the only station I hear people complain about and criticize up and down. Yes, Bill O'Reilly is a pious jerk. But he does have some points that you would never hear debated on CNN. And I hear good discussion on Hannity and Colmes- Fox tends to give both sides of the story. Which is what I, as someone in the middle of the road, like.
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Old 08-24-2004, 12:18 AM   #29
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Not to be off topic (still deals with F 9/11), but I thought everyone here might find this interesting. F 9/11 has now been show internationally, including in a large amount of middle eastern countries, where many people liked it, and have even been inspired by it, NOT for its controversy and Bush bashing, but for the simple fact that a documentary like that could be made. People are wanting that same freedom and are starting to see that they need to make changes in their oppressive governments. They admire the fact that America allows people to have a freedom of speech and they want it for themselves. How cool is that? No matter how bad you might think F 9/11 is, you gotta admit, that kind of impact is great for the progression of freedom and non-oppressive forms of govt. Maybe within 50 years women in those countries will start gaining more rights. Possibly even sooner since in some places they are finally allowed to receive an education (though I wonder how good this education is). Anyway, I thought that was a positive note that this topic needed cause some people sounded a little angry, of course I could have just mis-read.
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Old 08-24-2004, 12:32 AM   #30
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F 9/11 has now been show internationally, including in a large amount of middle eastern countries, where many people liked it, and have even been inspired by it, NOT for its controversy and Bush bashing, but for the simple fact that a documentary like that could be made. People are wanting that same freedom and are starting to see that they need to make changes in their oppressive governments.
Wow. so Micheal Moores Plan Backfired!

It's not a documentary. Its an opinion piece. He presents his opinion as if it were fact, And by mixing it in with acual factual information, he cleverly slips under the radar of the casual follower of politics. And as was most likely previously stated, Many of the claims he has made has been proven to be flat out lies and Moore knew they were lies when he was making it.

Let me ask a question. Why did he threaten lawsuit against anyone who would dare claim that he presented false information in his film? I guess that freedom of speech only applies to him?

When you think about it, It is kinda ironic that a man who comes out against people who have made a profit as a result of a war that he feels is unjust, made a HUGE profit (in the millions of dollars) because of that war.

You Go Micheal Moore! Win one for us little guys!

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