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Old 08-24-2004, 01:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSeason
Wow. so Micheal Moores Plan Backfired!

It's not a documentary. Its an opinion piece. He presents his opinion as if it were fact, And by mixing it in with acual factual information, he cleverly slips under the radar of the casual follower of politics. And as was most likely previously stated, Many of the claims he has made has been proven to be flat out lies and Moore knew they were lies when he was making it.

Let me ask a question. Why did he threaten lawsuit against anyone who would dare claim that he presented false information in his film? I guess that freedom of speech only applies to him?

When you think about it, It is kinda ironic that a man who comes out against people who have made a profit as a result of a war that he feels is unjust, made a HUGE profit (in the millions of dollars) because of that war.

You Go Micheal Moore! Win one for us little guys!

LOL, outstanding! Watch, I'm sure that the Hollywood rat pack will see to it the academy recognizes him when the time comes. Not bad, mega millions and a trophy. 8O Oh ya and another chance to grandstand in front of his peers.
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Old 08-24-2004, 06:00 AM   #32
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Why is it that multiple independent sources checked the movie for facts and found them to be true and documented, yet people say its full of lies?
That is so naive. It has been absolutely documented that the movie is full of made up and exaggerated propaganda. The 9/11 commission report debunks the entire movie. You need to be better informed. Watch Fox news and Bill Oreilly if you want a fair and unbiased view of the facts.

There is a growing socialist and anti corporate america movement in this country that wants to radically change this country and does not care by what means. This is a open democracy where everyones voice may be heard, unfortunetly it does not matter how much truth it is based on.

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Not to be off topic (still deals with F 9/11), but I thought everyone here might find this interesting. F 9/11 has now been show internationally, including in a large amount of middle eastern countries, where many people liked it, and have even been inspired by it, NOT for its controversy and Bush bashing, but for the simple fact that a documentary like that could be made.
Actually it is not that simple. Hesbala, (however that is spelled) one of the biggest terrorist organization, has the film and very happily is showing it off. Castro ran it on national television in Cuba. That pretty much says it all right there. This anti american movie is being used by our enemies for their own propaganda. That is absolutely shamefull.

Just ask yourself, why would Moore give the movie to CASTRO??? Or to the largest mid east terrorist organization outside of Bin laden? What if this was World War 2 and Moore gave such a movie to the Germans, the biggest war criminals in history?

While I am at it, I will give you my opinion on Europe. The vast majority of Europe is socialist and ruled by socialists parties. They have fundamental differences in political views and social practices than a conservative party such as the American Repulicans and someone like Bush. Their views are far more liberal than at least half of the American Democrat party. It is no great surprise at all that much of the populus of Europe hates Bush. They are offended that Bush openly admits to be a religious person and can not accept the fact he can be a good and fair leader and still be religious, so they compare him to Bin Laden as a religious extremist. They are offended that we did not wait for the endorsement of France and Germany before taking action.

They did not like Reagan either. When Reagan demanded in a speech that the Berlin wall be torn down, the people of Europe called him a war monger. Sometimes our leaders need to take a tough stand, with or without the approval of our Europian allies. Liberal socialists can be as intolerant as any other idealog. No big surprise.
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Old 08-24-2004, 07:48 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Robert H
Watch Fox news and Bill Oreilly if you want a fair and unbiased view of the facts.
Hahahahahaha.. Thanks I needed a laugh.
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Old 08-24-2004, 09:55 AM   #34
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I was gonna read and reply to this thread, but stopped on page two. I'd say things that would anger people, because I see a lot of people who are too wrapped up and closed minded, too busy trying to "protect" their "side", to realize that like all things, both sides are presenting a mixture of truth and lies.

Get over yourselves. Liberals aren't the enemy, and neither are the conservatives. This country was built on the prinicipal of compromise between these two opposing forces. To remove one or the other breaks the entire system. I fear the day when either so completely dominates the other side that they can do whatever they want.
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Old 08-24-2004, 09:56 AM   #35
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wow, maybe it is because I read this after just waking up, but I think that the two responses to my post were... well I was a little take back by them. I wrote that because everyone here was becoming so negative. Honestly, there are ALL sorts of sources that say he is right or wrong, and everyone here is just bickering and making claims they believe to be true. I am all about having discussions, and I've participated in them before in The Lounge, but I just get a bad vibe from this one. No offense, I know yall are trying to say what you beleive in. However, you guys seem to forget some of the really good documentaries that M.M. has made in the past. M.M. was aware that a lot of what he put into his work was opinion, he has always admitted that, and the people who don't take the movie with a grain of salt, are the ones who get all fussy. I'm not going to argue truths or lies because I don't have the facts to back it up, and don't feel like rumaging through my packed boxes to find them. Anyway, I'm not sure where I was going with this anymore so I guess I'll go get ready for class (bleck!!). Oh, and don't think that our news sources are unbiased, fair, truthful, etc... because they are not. I'll come back with facts to prove that if you guys need it. The only station I would remotly trust is PBS because they have no ties to anyone. The only thing about other countries' papers that I like are that they give a different perspective.


**hehe, had to fix some typos
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:53 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by frshwaterfinatc
(BTW, Floridians- how many of you had the 'hanging chads' experience Around here, to this day, puns are made referring to the stupidity of FL's residents. But I'd like to know if this was an isolated case of just those cities- or if many of you saw this problem and were able to deal with it accordingly.)
I try to stay away from political discussions because while I definitely have my opinions, I'm not good at debating. I've read through this thread, and of course, I couldn't let this comment go unanswered.

I believe the 'hanging chads' were mostly in south FL where the majority of people have moved here from somewhere else, maybe even from your state, frshwaterfinatc. It doesn't matter if they're native Floridians or transplants. To imply that the people of a certain geographical area are all stupid is in itself stupid and bigoted. We've all heard the jokes and we've made them ourselves because we can laugh at ourselves. Not long after the 2000 election, bumper stickers were seen in south Florida that said "Don't blame me, I voted for Gore and Buchanan." Ha, now that's funny.

The fact is, there was a big problem with the voting process, not with the voters. I just pray that we won't have the same mess this year.
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:53 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert H
Actually it is not that simple. Hesbala, (however that is spelled) one of the biggest terrorist organization, has the film and very happily is showing it off. Castro ran it on national television in Cuba. That pretty much says it all right there. This anti american movie is being used by our enemies for their own propaganda. That is absolutely shamefull.
Here is an interesting little bit of information related to that:

In North Vietnam there is a museum devoted to the Hero's who defeated the Americans in the Vietnam War. In that museum there is a picture hanging on a wall, and the man standing in that picture is John Kerry.

We did not loose one major battle in the whole of the Vietnam War. The war was lost at home. and if anyone could be called the "General" of the war on the homefront, It would be John Kerry.

We need to examine what it is that people Like Micheal Moore and John Kerry want. Why do they lie and twist stories around to make americans look bad? What is in it for them? How is it helping America? How is it helping our enemies?

What I want to know is how can Kerry be so proud of medals he recieved for doing what he later felt was morally reprehensible? You can't have it both ways John.
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Old 08-24-2004, 11:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSeason

In North Vietnam there is a museum devoted to the Hero's who defeated the Americans in the Vietnam War. In that museum there is a picture hanging on a wall, and the man standing in that picture is John Kerry.

We did not loose one major battle in the whole of the Vietnam War. The war was lost at home. and if anyone could be called the "General" of the war on the homefront, It would be John Kerry.

We need to examine what it is that people Like Micheal Moore and John Kerry want. Why do they lie and twist stories around to make americans look bad? What is in it for them? How is it helping America? How is it helping our enemies?

What I want to know is how can Kerry be so proud of medals he recieved for doing what he later felt was morally reprehensible? You can't have it both ways John.
Also, while is Kerry screaming at Bush to condemn the commercial made by the Swift Boat Veterans. Moveon.org and the mediafund.org (properly named and funded I would bet) go on the merry way with the assault of nasty, factless commercials. You don't hear Bush or the mainstream media crying about those.

Wait until the focus turns to Kerry's post war activity. How will he defend those actions that border on treason?

I would love to know the true agenda or Moore, Kerry, Moveon.org, etc, other than the lust for power. The media is their machine and they are taking full advantage of it's use. Good for America? Sorry, don't see how.
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Old 08-24-2004, 12:04 PM   #39
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Let's seperate something right quick: "Good for America" is not the same thing as "Good for right wing conservatives"

The last statistics I could found placed the nation split into three groups. Those that identify with the democratic party, those that identify with the republican party, and those that went either way. It was a nearly 33% split between the three groups.

The fact is, as much as you might not like to think about it, you are NOT the majority. You are merely a facet of America, and America is more than a Republican agenda, its more than a Democrat agenda, its more than any one person or group.

That's all I got to say.
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Old 08-24-2004, 01:18 PM   #40
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I don't want to wade in on any particular side but i would like to say a couple things:
1. I lived in england and in the US, there is non-one I know who can show good evidence that the US media can even come close to the impartial nature of the media in Britain.
2. I think the opinion of a man who goes and defends a country, and from his experiences in battle decides that it is/was not the right thing to do. And who them works against escalating it further, is worth infinitely more than someone who flew a desk for the war, was not endangered and from the safety of the sidelines shouts out his opinion.
3. I hope and assume we are all mature enough to keep the debate civilised, and not affect other areas of the forum! (where we are fishy friends! )
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