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Old 08-25-2004, 01:47 AM   #81
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well, wouldn't it be better if Bush proved those statements false?
Consider that just because someone lies against you you can't run to court. Slander does happen, and gets by without punishment. Personally, I'd rather have slander and be able to recognize it than to have no slander and surpress the freedom of speech. He's excercising his rights. And I'm excercising mine, telling the other side of it.
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Old 08-25-2004, 01:48 AM   #82
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And I do believe the President is preoccupied with more important things than what MM says about him.
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Old 08-25-2004, 01:56 AM   #83
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And while I'm still thinking of it, rubysoho, why do you say "if" these statenments by MM are false?

On a more personal level: If you have read what I posted about what Fahrenheit 9/11 says and what Misleads says, can you without hesitation tell me YOU believe what Michael Moore says to be truth?

Because as I look on at the two choices; MM or Misleads, I cannot honestly say I find any truth in Michael Moore. When I read Misleads and recall the incidents and news reports I saw as the events occurred (i.e. the election, Gore's recounts, etc) I remember them to be true.

From Moore's standpoint, if I do see any truthful portryal of those events it lies in the omnious, whiny reporting of Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings, and the like. He hits that nail of negativity right on the head. But this does his Bush- bashing agenda no real good. Or else he'd simply rely on the newscasters in the liberal media and never have made this film.
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Old 08-25-2004, 09:18 AM   #84
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frshwaterfinatc, you talk about Misleads as if it's a creditable independent investigation. Why would you believe it's anything more than just an opposing view? I'm not arguing, I'm actually asking because I haven't read the book, but from what you've typed from it so far I have no reason to believe otherwise.

And don't say because it provides evidence to support it's claims, because that is exactly what MM does in the movie, and we all know you can twist evidence to support your own view, right?

BTW - I would strongly urge you to actually watch this movie.. that way your arguments against it might carry a bit more weight.

How can you possibly "review" a movie based on someone elses opinions, and without actually watching it? Do you have blind faith in this book?

.... Yes I'm feeling better today, LOL
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Old 08-25-2004, 09:25 AM   #85
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This is the last time I'm gonna bother to post. What makes Misleads undenable truth? Its easy for either person to state that "This reports says this, but he said that" .. Until I or you personally read that report, in full, who are you to say one is lying but the other isn't?

You're telling us, "MM is a complete liar, because I have a webpage that says so" ... Why should we trust that webpage? Because they post "facts"? Facts are very hard to find in politics. I'm weary of anyone or anything that claims to be entire truth or fact.

No one has said in this thread that everything Moore said was truth. All they've asked is what makes your website so much more creditable. We all know Moore twists things to reflect his agenda. He takes FACTS (Whether you want to believe it or not), and links and twists them in ways that favor the politic side he serves. The site you keep refering to does the EXACT SAME THING, but for the other side.

On one hand, you say you don't trust Moore because he uses the "liberal media" to support his claims. Then you go and said you trust Misleads because you remember the news reports about the things they say. So if the media supports Moore, they're "liberial untrustworthy media", but if they support your side, they're the truth? The media is the media. It doesn't switch the "truth" switch on and off, they show whatever will get the best ratings.

Your whole argument is "I saw this happen, therefore Moore is wrong" is based on personal opinion and point of view. You've seen what the "media" and the newspapers showed you (By your own accusations, liberal) and what Misleads has told you (Quite obviously not liberal). You don't have all the facts, you have what people have given you to further their own agenda.

I'm not saying whether or not Moore or Misleads is more truthful. I'm just trying to point out, like I've tried to point out over and over, that you do NOT have the whole story, ALL of the sites and documentries and such are out for their own AGENDA, not truth. Never rely on one source to discredit another.

If there's 10 sites supporting Moore, and 2 against, which side is right? If there's 10 sites against Moore, and 2 supporting, which side is right? Don't trust everything you read on the Internet so easily. There's hundreds of politically oriented books written each year that directly contradict each other. This is just another incident of the same, Moore (Left) vs Mislead (Right).

If you believe either is giving you (Or even HAS it to give) the entire truth, you need to do some more digging and find some more websites. There's thousands of them out there, each with their own spin and take on it. The only people that know the truth are those that were directly involved.

I'm sure that'll go across wrong, but oh well,l good day :)
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Old 08-25-2004, 09:37 AM   #86
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hehe, I think Atari and Ferret answered my question as to why I do not take the book Misleads seriously. Can you let me know who the author is? I would like to look up this person's background. It would be interesting to see what else they have done. Actually, if you look up a lot of "unbiased" pieces or books and their background you find a completely different story and see that yes there is bias. We already know there is bias with MM, but he did have A LOT of facts in his movie, which is why I am not so quick to judge it. In fact, I remember sitting and watching the film, listening to fact after fact and I thought it would have been better if he hadn't listed so much because it was hard to remember everything he said. Plus, I have seen his other works, I understand his editing style (which is amazing from a perspective of film editing) so I can weed out his sarcasm and what he is really trying to show. Plus, I am a communication major and in ALL my classes (and it gets very repetative) we have kept up with what is going on, researched background, and then we saw the same evidence in MM. Not all of my teachers are liberal, some adore Bush, some don't like him at all, so I get to see a lot of views that people in normal every day life don't always hear. We also use a lot of outside independent sources (both liberal and conservative) because we understand and see the faults in a lot of American media. I could write a book on what I've learned, but I doubt you'd want to read it, and I have to go to class. Take care everyone!
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Old 08-25-2004, 11:09 AM   #87
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Michael Moore is a meanie and I don't like him.
There, I said it!!!
Thats all I have time to post this AM.
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Old 08-25-2004, 11:30 AM   #88
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LOL Q-man, I guess that settles it then :P
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Old 08-25-2004, 07:16 PM   #89
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haha, nice one Quarryshark
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Old 08-25-2004, 08:16 PM   #90
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I have been reading this for a while, and decided to throw myself in...
Just wanted to say, earlier in the posts, didn’t you admit to not seeing the film, fishfinatic? You may have seen it since then, but if not, are all of these claims simply cut and pasted off an anti-Moore website? How can you say that his style is "connect the dots" when you have not seen the movie; only seen clips and read what people think about it who didn’t agree with him in the first place? All of his facts are backed up on http://www.michaelmoore.com/ with sources to each one. If you are arguing with the movie, at least see the movie, and look at how facts are portrayed, not cut up laid at your feet by a website.
As you may have guessed, I am a liberal but while I say this, I wish to know something, what do you think is a liberal? Or a conservative? I would like to see people post (without looking it up) what they feel the definition to these two words are. The definition shocked me, right out of Webster’s. Go ahead; post what you feel it means to be a conservative or liberal.
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