Fahrenheit 9/11

[frshwaterfinatc]

http://www.grassfire.org/7026/moore_introdraft.pdf

For everyone who's heard of Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11, read this draft portion of grassroots.org 's booklet Michael Moore's Misleads. I for one saw clips of the movie and was disgusted with the entire theme. The liberal media and Moore would love to have Americans believe President Busgh stole the election, is murdering Iraqis and Afghanis for no apparent reason (they either say it's for no reason or it's simply for the oil), and is outright incompetent in every way. Most of my firends care nothing of the election or politcal issues. One of my friends fully supports Farenheit 9/11. Having heard her side of the story and seen portions of the movie and read articles in the newspaper and online regarding Moore's movie, I have concluded this man is a liar, and a liberal bent on turning everyone against him. Some of his claims are just ludicrous- anyone having any knowledge of Presdident Bush's presidency can sight these alarmingly false claims at a glance.


I have this book right here in my hand. And I strongly encourage each of you who recognize this literature exposing Michael Moore's misleads to inform those you know. If you read the entire book, your shock will grow more an more as you see the almost frantic extents this man stretches towards to falsify all of President Bush's actions and motives.

 

[rubysoho]

I think both sides twist the truth, it is what politicians and their "workforce" do best. How can you be sure that the information you are reading is 100% fact? I don't think anyone can. People can always find the "research" they need, whether they are republican, democratic, or whatever. This is why I decided to not go into politics... too much corruption from all sides.

 

[Atari]

Personally speaking, when I saw this movie it didn't really tell me anything the British media hadn't already reported.. and since I consider our media fairly accurate when it comes to foreign affairs, I came to the conclusion that Mr Moore brought some good issues out.

 

[Christmasfish]

I'm not too impressed with the piece.
But I hate one sided offerings anyway.
That is why I never vote the primarys; I want to vote from the FULL range of candidates who I think will best fill the position. Not have my carded party or the other side force me to choose only from their candidates.
The best foreign reporting is usually from obscure countries that don't have a piece in the current contested world event.

 

[ClamKnuckle]

Why is it that everyone that I have heard bad mouth that movie never saw it?

Why is it that multiple independent sources checked the movie for facts and found them to be true and documented, yet people say its full of lies?

What makes the book your reading so factual and his movie (and books I assume) lies?

Why is it that people say liberal like its a bad thing yet a majority of the country, even those who don't realize it, are by definition liberal?

Some of his claims are just ludicrous- anyone having any knowledge of President Bush's presidency can sight these alarmingly false claims at a glance.

I have plenty of knowledge about the presidency, and if anything is alarming it's the fact that these "claims" have credibility behind them and the "liberal media" doesn't do there job and expose what goes in with in our government, with our tax money and to our citizens!

 

[rubysoho]

I agree clamknuckle! you hit it right on the head, imo

 

[quarryshark]

I'm with you frshwaterfinatc. I wouldn't give that scumbag 1 cent of my money. He is just another liberal hitman with a pocket full of lies.
People that buy this mans crap need to go back a couple of year and remember what happened to us on 9/11. Thats why we are in the middle east.
I will check out this book, thanks!!!

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

You're welcome, quarryshark!!

Why is it that everyone that I have heard bad mouth that movie never saw it?

Clamknuckle, have you seen it?

The reason I have not and will not see it is because I don't want to give him any financial benefit whatsoever from my viewing when I have already heard about it from my good friend. (Who somehow still remains my good friend... *cough* )

Now, if you have seen it, and you have read the portion of Misleads I linked you, answer this: are the ideas and quotes from the movie incorrect? If not, again I say I have no need to view the film. If they were incorrect ideas and quotes from the film, then I would have to re-think my support of Misleads.

 

[ClamKnuckle]

Yes I have seen the movie, and I think you should too....buy a ticket to something else and sneak in if you don't want him to get the money

Now, if you have seen it, and you have read the portion of Misleads I linked you, answer this: are the ideas and quotes from the movie incorrect?

Unless there is more to the link (I like the red letters across the screen to make it look important and official looking by the way) then I can see there isn't any quotes, or supporting facts either. He talks about things they mention in your link, like how the army is made up of mostly young people without higher education (true) and that the ethnic background of the military doesn't reflect the national percentages (also true, they told me that when I was in the navy). He never said anything about saddam being a nice guy though, so I don't know where that came from. He talks about the liars that politicians are, both sides of the isle, and blames democrats fro crap too, not just republicans. He is also kind enough to show the relationship and business ties between "Dubya", his administration, the Saudis, The bin ladins, and how he was able to use the wars to benefit all parties involved. Billions of our tax dollars and over a thousand Americans have died in these wars, and its nice to see what people are getting out of it.

He is just another liberal hitman with a pocket full of lies.

I hear so much about these lies and yet to have seen anything supporting that, weather it be from rush or O'Reilly or the above link.

People that buy this mans crap need to go back a couple of year and remember what happened to us on 9/11. That's why we are in the middle east.

First of all, how many people did you know at the WTC? How many people in your family worked there or lived a few blocks away? How many friends do you have that were EMS setting up between the towers when the first one fell? Believe me I do remember and that's why it upsets me what's going on. We are in Afghanistan because of 9/11, not Iraq. We're chasing WMD's in a country that the Bush administration called contained and harmless pre-9/11. They had ZERO ties to 9/11. The only connection you can make is that troops that were searching for bin laden were transferred to Iraq. So Bush got his man, but the man who got us is still out there.

 

[Atari]

LOL, I just read that draft and am still laughing at it. Someone give the angry kid who wrote it a clue.

 

[ClamKnuckle]

just read that draft and am still laughing at it. Someone give the angry kid who wrote it a clue

haha

Moore can come across as an angry kid too in the movie. I think he would have been better off not having sarcasm and venom in his voice while stating the FACTS about what's happened and what's going on. I think more people would look at it with an open mind that way.

 

[quarryshark]

.. and since I consider our media fairly accurate when it comes to foreign affairs,

Surely you just. That media is what tabloids are modeled after. Its the only one more biased that the American media. At Least Tony Blair had it right.
And yes I have read British newspapers...many times.

 

[ClamKnuckle]

At Least Tony Blair had it right

What did he have right? WMD?

 

[quarryshark]

He is just another liberal hitman with a pocket full of lies.

I hear so much about these lies and yet to have seen anything supporting that, weather it be from rush or O'Reilly or the above link.

There is plenty of support. This man makes a living off on propeganda. He will himself (has admitted it in interviews) reveal his agenda.

People that buy this mans crap need to go back a couple of year and remember what happened to us on 9/11. That's why we are in the middle east.

First of all, how many people did you know at the WTC? How many people in your family worked there or lived a few blocks away? How many friends do you have that were EMS setting up between the towers when the first one fell? Believe me I do remember and that's why it upsets me what's going on. We are in Afghanistan because of 9/11, not Iraq. We're chasing WMD's in a country that the Bush administration called contained and harmless pre-9/11. They had ZERO ties to 9/11. The only connection you can make is that troops that were searching for bin laden were transferred to Iraq. So Bush got his man, but the man who got us is still out there.

Just because I don't know anyone personally doesn't change a thing, what a stupid statement. You don't think Iraq has any links to al-Qaeda? This group freely roams many countries in the middle east and around the world.
Who do you think the insurgents that are fighting us are? Good Iraqi citizens? This war is much more than about WMDs, we are fighting these aholes in their own backyard instead of here. Not to mention that we have Iran surrounded and are in Syria's backyard.
The amount of intelligence we are getting into the middle east now is invaluable as well as the informants we are gaining. This is a long term war and its not about 1 man. Bin Laden is just one players in the global game, we have caught and killed many and there are many more to go. Whoever wins the presidency better be prepared to continue this fight, our future relies on it. Iraq is very relevent in this fight. What do you want to do, pull our troops from the middle east, sit here and hope nothing will happen?

 

[quarryshark]

At Least Tony Blair had it right

What did he have right? WMD?

You really should get you TV preset off CNN (Clinton new network)
It was well documented that Iraq had them. Not to hard to hide them in the desert or move them to Syria. Besides this war is about so much more.

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

How can any of us question the war like we do, anyway? Don't you think the President and the government know more than we do? Do you actually believe they'd expose even a fraction of the evidence they have to the American public? This, while some call it "unfair" is only logical... if we all knew what the government knew so would our enemies- who could swiftly avoid us.

And although President Bush ultimately makes the 'final' decisions, his advisors are strongly influential. Why not blame Condi Rice for everything? How can any of us, as civilians, sit back and refute so many of the decisions with our LIMITED knowledge when there are so many people involved in the government that give the go-aheads and decide as a group?

No, they are not perfect. But I certainly have more peace knowing they have the information and they lead as best they can- and they are certainly better equipped than 99% of us, even though every one stabs at them as if they themselves could do so much better.

 

[nyghtone]

I just found this thread and I have to put my two cents in.

To start with, I will say that I am a liberal person, I believe strongly in homosexuals right to marry, and I'm a super believer in the separation of church and state. Secondly, I voted for Bush. As much as a disagree with his agenda to write hate into our constitution, I am still to this day glad that Gore isn't president!!!

That being said, MM(miky moore) is the venom to my liberal cause. I did see F9/11, and it ticks me off to no end. I'll give but one example. He held up a newspaper with a front page clip, which was an article that really existed, but on page 10+, and MM made the font bigger to make it "appear" like a front page article.

As a person who is quite disgusted with much of Bush's actions, I don't need to stretch the truthe for it to be right, and MM's doing so has done nothing but take away the powerful truth that he started with, this is what iritates me so very much.

So yes, the movie told a lot of "facts", but every single one of them was stretched, by a little, or by a lot...

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

I must counter your profession of liberalism by informing everyone that I am in no way a conservative. Nor am I liberal. I'm in the middle of the road- I take both sides and look at each.

As you, Nyghtone, I'm very pleased that Al Gore is not in the seat. His whining and foot-stamping disbelief of his loss did him no more justice than what I already saw in him, either.

(BTW, Floridians- how many of you had the 'hanging chads' experience Around here, to this day, puns are made referring to the stupidity of FL's residents. But I'd like to know if this was an isolated case of just those cities- or if many of you saw this problem and were able to deal with it accordingly.)

 

[lyquidphyre]

I am still to this day glad that Gore isn't president!!!

AMEN!

Here is my two cents-
Being 20 and going to a liberal arts school, I get frustrated at my age group jumping on the "I hate bush" campaign. In some respect, I feel its my generations way to pretend its viatnam. But I digress...
I saw Michael Moores film, and I found it interesting... HOWEVER, I went into it knowing it was going to be greatly slanted. Some people have given examples already but one that comes to mind is when he asks the congressmen if they wanted to inlist their kids. All of the ones he showed where... rude? for a lack of a better word... in responce to him. But what about the one congressman he mentioned with a child in Iraq? It bothered me it was a "Oh yah, by the way.. i better mention this". I would have LOVED to have seen the guy that said "Hey %*#$ my son IS in Iraq". Also, what about the soldiers who are over there who support why they are over there? They only showed the ones that like to play Bloodhound Gang while they blow up buildings.

I dunno.

I don't plan on voting because I don't like Kerry... and I refuse to vote for the "lesser of the two evils". Why is it we have two *cough* running for election?

I think anyone who plans on voting should see Farenhit 9/11- even if they sneak into it.. because like i said, it is interesting to watch.

 

[ClamKnuckle]

Just because I don't know anyone personally doesn't change a thing, what a stupid statement

I was trying to make a point with my "stupid statement" that just because you agree with some of the stuff Mooree says and don't follow the right blindly doesn't mean you forgot what happened a few years ago. Telling people that disagree with Iraq to look back a few years and remember what happened is pretty stupid. I was just trying to make my point, not belittle anyone or there opinion.

You don't think Iraq has any links to al-Qaeda?

Well, no I don't think pre-invasion Iraq had any links to them or 9/11. There is no evidence saying that they did. Is Al-Qaeda fighting there now, yes, but were they before, no. Bin Laden and Saddam did not get along because Bin Laden hated his lack of religious devotion. Not even there hate of America could bring them together.

This war is much more than about WMDs

If YOU look back a couple years you'll remember that the war was about WMDs when we went in. Iraq had the ability to strike us any minute and we had to take him out now, remember? We knew exactly where they were and could see them on satellite photos. Remember? Bush kept threatening Saddam "do this or we invade, do that or we invade" and even though he met all the UN deadlines on stuff we invaded anyway because it was taking too long and he was such a threat. Well, its been over a year and we haven't found these weapons that we knew where they were and were tracking, so now the war is about more then WMDs? The American public was told we were going in there because he was such a threat and it turns out he wasn't, so now people say the war is about more. No, it wasn't. No, it's not. It was about WMDs, that aren't there, and now you try to make ends to justify the means but that's not the way it happened.

It was well documented that Iraq had them

Bye who? Not the UN weapons inspectors

Iraq is very relevant in this fight. What do you want to do, pull our troops from the middle east, sit here and hope nothing will happen?

Iraq is relevant now because they made it relevant. If we went after countries relevant to terrorism we would have went to Iran first, or Syria, or to Saudi Arabia. Do I think we should pull our guys out now, no. But I do think we made a mess of things and I think we should try to get countries back on our side and have a real international force in there to keep peace and restore the nation.

How can any of us, as civilians, sit back and refute so many of the decisions with our LIMITED knowledge when there are so many people involved in the government that give the go-aheads and decide as a group?

How can anyone follow the government blindly? That's crazy and what they want you to do. It's been over a year in Iraq...don't you think if they had more information about WMDs and crap they would let us know instead of looking bad? They went out and showed off a terrorist that we caught a few weeks ago so they could look good, mean while he was turned and was going to work for us on the inside but we blew that. We were working with the Brits and Pakistan on that one, and when the lap dog that is the post 9/11 Pakistan government starts saying we messed up you know we did (Tony Blair's government said we messed up too). Information and informants are very limited with terrorism for us, and when we finally get on the right track the White house blows it to show we are catching the bad guys. So yeah if they would do that I think that they would tell us more information if it would justify there cause and make them look good.