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Old 07-27-2011, 02:57 PM   #11
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I believe in giving fish the best environment possible that is closest to their natural habitat. I keep what I can and do the best I can to provide. It's fair to the fish because it's my fault when they get disease because I have neglected the tank from time to time and should be doing better care. I'm working on it, starting out in high school with high expectations from parents with me doing a lot outsied of academics and sports doesn't give me time to take care of the fish as much as I can but I do my best to support them. I still find time to do PWC every week. I still feed the fish every other day. Really it depends on how much you care and how much effort you're willing to put in. Some people don't put in any effort at all, they expect the fish to live without their care and expect them to compensate for their poor health.

As for the fishing question, I've never gone fishing before but I wanted to point something out: fishing as a sport will probably stay where it is.. For professional fishers they don't care about the fish, they care about the prize. That's the mentality of the sport and I doubt they will ever change it due to animal protesters or PETA. Because according to several papers (I had to do an essay on this, so I should know) many believe animals do not have the same rights as people, and although they live and feel pain, you can't put animal's needs before yourself. Which is why sports fishers like to see fish feel pain, it's the satisfaction they get out of it. And although we think it's wrong, they think it's right. It's like good and evil (bad analogy), the good person thinks the evil person is doing evil, but the evil person believes they're doing the right thing. It seems erroneous.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:35 PM   #12
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It's the same with any species, why is it so repulsive to eat dogs and cats in the U. S. But fine to eat cows, pigs, and chickens?
What gives us the right to choose what species of animal is pet and which is dinner?
It's which ever you choose for yourself and your conscience, in some cultures cows are sacred religious symbols but you have no problem tossing a steak on the grill and devouring it.
When it comes down to it, it's survival of the fittest!
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:43 PM   #13
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As for the fishing question, I've never gone fishing before but I wanted to point something out: fishing as a sport will probably stay where it is.. For professional fishers they don't care about the fish, they care about the prize. That's the mentality of the sport and I doubt they will ever change it due to animal protesters or PETA. Because according to several papers (I had to do an essay on this, so I should know) many believe animals do not have the same rights as people, and although they live and feel pain, you can't put animal's needs before yourself. Which is why sports fishers like to see fish feel pain, it's the satisfaction they get out of it. And although we think it's wrong, they think it's right. It's like good and evil (bad analogy), the good person thinks the evil person is doing evil, but the evil person believes they're doing the right thing. It seems erroneous.
Coming from someone who has fished his whole life, including many tournaments, I can assure you, the bolded portion of your quote is totally off base. Hunters and fisherman buy hunting and fishing lisences which fund programs to ensure we have a safe, healthy environment for our wildlife. Professional fishing is no different. While it may be for the sport (which, anybody who fishes does it for fun... just like keeping an aquarium), responsible fishing practices are required.

As far as replicating their environment, we can't do that. As much as you try, it'll never happen.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:54 PM   #14
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Only reason I buy a fishing license is so I don't get busted not having one! LOL
As for the pain, I love a good fight when reeling in but it's not about enjoying the pain.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:27 PM   #15
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I think that the feeder fish thing is pitiful. I would never feed my flowerhorn (when he gets bigger) any of these feeder fish that you find in stores. If I ever came across ones in good health, then why not? If my flowerhorn were a natural fish in the wild, he would of course eat smaller fish, no problem. His lineage contains plenty of big cichlids that have no issue eating juvies or small fish. The problem is when we try to control what fish they do eat. Since they will just become food, these goldfish (or whatever else feeder) is horribly treated with tons of diseases in cramped, overcrowded, under cleaned tanks. I could never give that to my baby. I will just stick to frozen foods and pellets.

It's just a whole issue of where you draw the line. I can't eat freshwater fish. I tried to back in May to eat some catfish and was sick in the bathroom, puking. I just couldn't do it. But, sushi? I eat that at least once every other week. I have a bias towards saltwater fish, for whatever reason- probably because I don't have them as pets, and can readily eat them. It's just like a dog. I could never eat a dog, I would just think about all the ones I have had in the past or my boyfriend's dog. Same thing with that catfish, I kept thinking about the catfish I have had for pets.

And fishers/hunters aren't completely in the wrong. Everything that my dad gets becomes our food. The only part of the animal that becomes a trophy is the antlers. Everything else gets used for something. And the licensing does go to great programs for national parks, etc. Most hunters/fishers that I have been around have some of the greatest respects for nature. They aren't killing to kill, they are taking part in more of a primal aspect.

But, this is a nice thread. Everyone throwing in their two cents.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:27 PM   #16
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Good points jet. I have been thinking about this as well. I get upset when ppl say if u cycle with fish just get feeder fish bc they are cheap!! So it's ok to make them go through cycling bc it's easier on our wallets? I don't think so.

As for deer hunting I personally feel it's wrong to kill anything for sport alone... If u eat it that's a different story. God gave us meat for food.

As for fishing. I have been wonder why we care so much for the fish in our tanks and yet hook some in the face for the thrill and throw them back. I've been battling the fishing idea. I went fishing thanksgiving and had the best time. Now I have 6 tanks and I'm wondering how I can do this to this fish and live mine so much!?? We just caught and threw back. I have heard that the fish don't feel much pain but I don't know how I feel about that???
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:30 PM   #17
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On the flip side, deer are overpopulating much of the US. While I definitely think all meat should be eaten or at least donated to programs to help the hungry (we have a program here in ky), the fact is that if we don't kill enough, many will suffer from hunger and destroy our crops that feed us.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:37 PM   #18
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On the flip side, deer are overpopulating much of the US. While I definitely think all meat should be eaten or at least donated to programs to help the hungry (we have a program here in ky), the fact is that if we don't kill enough, many will suffer from hunger and destroy our crops that feed us.
Good point. This is why in the winter, venison is mostly what we eat. My dad and his side of the family hunt and share the meat. They all hunt to their max, because they all are rural and deal directly with damages that the large population of deer make.

But, we might hit a point where there aren't enough deer one day (obviously not for a very long, long time). Like in Europe, most of their deer are completely wiped out. I know my mother's family in Croatia have never even seen wild deer.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:31 PM   #19
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Good point. This is why in the winter, venison is mostly what we eat. My dad and his side of the family hunt and share the meat. They all hunt to their max, because they all are rural and deal directly with damages that the large population of deer make.

But, we might hit a point where there aren't enough deer one day (obviously not for a very long, long time). Like in Europe, most of their deer are completely wiped out. I know my mother's family in Croatia have never even seen wild deer.
According to the IUCN red list of threatened species European Deer are "of least concern". There are plenty of healthy deer populations in Europe. There is even a herd that lives in Magdalen College Gardens in Oxford City Centre. Certainly in the UK hunting and fishing have gone a long way to help with the conservation of natural habitats (no habitat, no game). As for the ethics of fishkeeping this article:
Fishkeeping - Ethical Fishkeeping - General Guides - Articles
about says it all for me
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:40 PM   #20
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Sorry, I shouldn't have generalized that so much. A whole continent can vary with wildlife populations greatly. I know that in former Yugoslavian countries, they are virtually nonexistant.
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