Fishkeeping ethics

[Joeybsmooth]

Coming from someone who has fished his whole life, including many tournaments, I can assure you, the bolded portion of your quote is totally off base. Hunters and fisherman buy hunting and fishing lisences which fund programs to ensure we have a safe, healthy environment for our wildlife. Professional fishing is no different. While it may be for the sport (which, anybody who fishes does it for fun... just like keeping an aquarium), responsible fishing practices are required.

As far as replicating their environment, we can't do that. As much as you try, it'll never happen.

How do you get into professional fishing ?

 

[jetajockey]

Good points jet. I have been thinking about this as well. I get upset when ppl say if u cycle with fish just get feeder fish bc they are cheap!! So it's ok to make them go through cycling bc it's easier on our wallets? I don't think so.

If it makes you feel any better, I fish-in cycle with fish that I'm stocking the tank with, no sense in adding a fish just to remove it later, if you know what you are doing the fish will never have a need to be 'hardy' or 'expendable'.

As for fishing. I have been wonder why we care so much for the fish in our tanks and yet hook some in the face for the thrill and throw them back. I've been battling the fishing idea. I went fishing thanksgiving and had the best time. Now I have 6 tanks and I'm wondering how I can do this to this fish and live mine so much!?? We just caught and threw back. I have heard that the fish don't feel much pain but I don't know how I feel about that???

I love fishing, matter of fact, I'm likely to go fishing in the morning when I get off work. I work within a mile or so of a fishing area at the bay bluffs park. Around here, getting away from fishing/hunting is almost impossible. We are sitting on the gulf of mexico and several estuaries so there is water everywhere. I differentiate wild caught fish as food, and throw back anything that I can't use.

To make things even more complicated, when I'm freshwater fishing, I'm often in an area where I am collecting native fish for use in home aquaria, so honestly the only thing that determines whether a fish goes into the ice chest or the live well is how big and how pretty it is.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

My bad for generalizing fisherman in such a bad way. That's what happens I guess when you watch lots of movies that have been dramatized and the man who caught the fish says "This one'll bring it lotsa gold!" Too many old western movies for me

 

[jetajockey]

As far as replicating their environment, we can't do that. As much as you try, it'll never happen.

That's true, our abilities are very limited, but on the flip side, we also (when stocked properly) help negate the risk of predators as well.

In some cases I think moving the fish into aquaria is actually an upgrade, if you've seen some of the anoxic cess pools I've waded in to get some of these things, you'd know what I am saying. It's so bad that some of the species I collect have adapted to this type of extreme setup. Whether it be anoxic conditions or extremely low ph <5 in some instances.

Not saying that I'm doing them a favor or anything, they seem to be doing quite well where they are.

Most of the fish I collect are in these still water/slack water areas. Attempting to replicate that in the home aquaria would be a cruelty IMO.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

I think that the feeder fish thing is pitiful. I would never feed my flowerhorn (when he gets bigger) any of these feeder fish that you find in stores. If I ever came across ones in good health, then why not? If my flowerhorn were a natural fish in the wild, he would of course eat smaller fish, no problem. His lineage contains plenty of big cichlids that have no issue eating juvies or small fish.

It's just a whole issue of where you draw the line. I can't eat freshwater fish. I tried to back in May to eat some catfish and was sick in the bathroom, puking. I just couldn't do it. But, sushi? I eat that at least once every other week. I have a bias towards saltwater fish, for whatever reason- probably because I don't have them as pets, and can readily eat them. It's just like a dog. I could never eat a dog, I would just think about all the ones I have had in the past or my boyfriend's dog. Same thing with that catfish, I kept thinking about the catfish I have had for pets.

Actually flowerhorns are a man-made fish (selective breeding) so you won't find any in the wild.
The reason eating sushi is easier than eating freshwater fish is simply because that's how it is in this society, whatever food you are given you take because that's what's available. But I do wish we could stop eating sushi, according to an article yesterday in the paper some sort of tuna species is being decimated and population is going down in the wild.

On the flip side, deer are overpopulating much of the US. While I definitely think all meat should be eaten or at least donated to programs to help the hungry (we have a program here in ky), the fact is that if we don't kill enough, many will suffer from hunger and destroy our crops that feed us.

The reason deer are overpopulating is because (correct me if I'm wrong) many of their natural predators such as wolves and bears are being killed off because they are seen as a threat to humans. And also due to human overpopulation in their natural habitats it seems they have gone only upward into Canada and Alaska where there is still wilderness.

 

[Demonknight]

*sigh* I was going to post a long winded reply to several that have posted before me, then figured that it would be a waste of time, I have been around hunting/fishing my whole life(I'm 42) so I know a bit of whats being talked about.

As for keeping fish in tanks, its like any other pet, you signed up to take care of it, do it.

As for fishing or hunting we were brought up to cause as little "pain" (I'll argue this in a bit) as possible, not just for the welfare of the fish/animal but the more something struggles the more chemicals get pumped into its flesh, which is why you are after it in the first place.

This link says it all on the fishing side of things Do Fish Feel Pain ,
while they "feel" being injured its not the same as "we" feel it, as a chef I can tell you that heat/burns to my hands means little as my nerves have learned to ignore it(mostly), yet when fishing I can feel the tiniest of nibbles so I know they still work. Putting human emotions onto our pets has always been going on, just because you think they should feel, or that they "think" like you do doesn't mean they do, after all if they could think man kind would be in a lot of trouble.[FONT=&quot]
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[Demonknight]

The reason deer are overpopulating is because (correct me if I'm wrong) many of their natural predators such as wolves and bears are being killed off because they are seen as a threat to humans. And also due to human overpopulation in their natural habitats it seems they have gone only upward into Canada and Alaska where there is still wilderness.

Yes and no, while the lack of non-man predators help them (man is after all natural), its also because so much habitat has opened up to them, or they have adapted to the new ways. These quotes from Florida might help here.

[FONT=Century Schoolbook, serif]Florida’s deer herds and habitats are unique among the rest of the United States. Habitat quality and reproductive potential of deer in Florida are significantly lower than adjacent states. [/FONT]

and this one

[FONT=Century Schoolbook, serif]From near extinction in the 1930s deer populations and deer harvests have soared to record highs in Florida. [/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook, serif]White-tailed deer are also one of a few species of wildlife whose over-abundance can seriously degrade its own habitat as well as the habitat of other wildlife[/FONT]

[FONT=Century Schoolbook, serif]Sound wildlife and habitat management practices coupled with effective law enforcement caused deer numbers to continue growing throughout the decades of the 1970s and 80s. The year 1985 marked the first time in Florida’s recorded history that white-tailed deer harvest exceeded 100,000 animals. So successful was the return of the white-tailed deer that in some areas of the state female deer were legally harvested on an annual basis. Today deer harvest typically exceeds 100,000 animals annually.[/FONT]

Years ago there was a article on how due to the lack of hunting the deer in the swamps were destroying the habitat that gators needed to survive...talk about the meek inheriting the earth. As for bears, Deer only come into play as food when the deer is weak, old or dead anyway.

oh and I picked on Florida as its about as far south as you can get from the northern states you named

 

[jetajockey]

We have deer here? They look more like dogs with antlers.

 

[Demonknight]

I didn't say they were BIG deer...bu they are still kicking the butts of those wussy gators ya'll got down there

 

[zparticle]

Coming from someone who has fished his whole life, including many tournaments, I can assure you, the bolded portion of your quote is totally off base. Hunters and fisherman buy hunting and fishing lisences which fund programs to ensure we have a safe, healthy environment for our wildlife. Professional fishing is no different. While it may be for the sport (which, anybody who fishes does it for fun... just like keeping an aquarium), responsible fishing practices are required.
.

Couldn't agree more. The "sportsman" is providing a crucial monetary stream for the D.O.W. Most true sportsmen make things better not worse. I can't tell you how many ***** I've cleaned up after at the lakes and rivers I fish. These losers that come out to get hammered and litter everywhere. I never leave a fishing spot in worse condition than I found it, usually it is in better condition as I tend to pick up trash and hooks/line/etc that others have have left.

I haven't been hunting in a quite a few years but only because:

1> No one wants to go any more.
2> I'm getting too old to go sit in a duck blind at 4 in the morning. LOL

I have no problem with killing and eating any animal (unless they are endangered of course). I do have a special problem with people that go fishing and haven't learned proper handing techniques for releasing fish and the right gear to use so you don't kill them getting them to shore.

I live in Colorado and I would say the vast majority of our lakes are stocked. I can't tell you how many times I seen some moron rip the crap out of a trout getting the hook out and huck it back in the water only to be amazed that the fish goes belly up immediately. That drives me nuts.

I started doing the aquarium thing because I love fish and find them fascinating. This is the closest I can get to living with them. It isn't going to stop me from fishing.

nice to see that there are a few other fisherman on the site.

I recently made a trip to Florida specifically to go tarpon fishing and had the time of my life, insanely cool animals.

 

[Terrance]

Just wondering about everyone's position on what is ethical when it comes to fishkeeping. I often see posts concerned with the welfare of fish, whether it be overcrowding, potential toxin spikes in uncycled tanks, or even humane methods of euthanasia.

Yet it is still common to have feeder fish, who tend to live a short life in sub par conditions prior to being chased around and eaten alive.

We often allow fish to cannibalize their young, which is often due to being kept in the confined area of an aquarium.

Some of us like catching fish in the wild by putting a hook through the mouth, which is not only inhumane by basic fishkeeping standards but also cruel, since we do it for sport.


So, what makes 1 fish better than another?

I think its just part of the food chain. Bigger predators need a prey. My red cherry shrimp population will become food for my puffers. Snails are also fed to my puffers. Raw mussels, clams, and cockle is fed to my puffers.

Every meat I buy was once alive, but I need to survive. Everything my puffers eat was once alive, and they too will have to survive in my tank.

There is no better fish. There are just fishes you like to keep alive because its fun to you. If not, then release it back into the wild for it to be eaten by something else out there or die from natural causes.

 

[adeebm]

Very interesting topic! For me, when I take in a fish as a pet, I am depriving it of a natural life in the wild. So I take it as my responsibly to reasonably ensure a good quality of life. That means keeping the fish in a semblance of it's natural environment, with reasonable space, food, etc. It's life doesn't have to be perfect, since life in the wild is far from it, but my goal is to provide a better than average quality of life for my fish, to justify pulling them out of the wild for my own entertainment.

As far as feeders go, being eaten is part of life, so I have no qualms with feeding fish to fish. However, I think they should be treated well until they are reading to be fed. So it's unfortunate that all those feeder goldfish, etc live in poor conditions prior to being sold.

For sport fishing, my personal opinion is that as long as my intent is to eat a suitable fish, it's okay for me I'm not too enthusiastic about the idea of fishing for the sake of having fun. A caught and released fish is certainly going to be injured, and in pain and shock. If I were a fish, I wouldn't want a hook through my jaw for "sport". So when I fish, I do it with the intent of feeding myself, not simply for entertainment.

So basically, as long as it's in line with the course of nature, I'm good with it. Life and death is natural, and animals need to eat to survive, as do humans. However, since humans are unique in keeping "pets", we need to make sure we are not causing unnecessary harm to the environment, or suffering to the animals under our care and protection. JMO.

--Adeeb

 

[Tiburon]

As long as the fish meet's the Harvest Minimum. It's coming
home with me.. Big FlatHead's will get CPR (catch,photo,release)

Still a Rookie as far as Fishkeeping!!

 

[jetajockey]

Another interesting twist in the plot.

There are a few fish that are 'bled' after they are caught, to remove the strong blood taste. I know in our region, this is typically done with king mackerel and blackfin tuna. It just involves using a knife to cut the fish either at the gill or near the base of the tail and put them back into the water, tied to a rope, and allowing them to 'bleed out'.

It's a very common practice, and ultimately it serves a good purpose since the fish are being eaten, but it's not exactly the most humane thing if you are looking at it from an ethical standpoint.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Also, how ethical is it to put feeders in a tank where there is no option for them to run? Lots and lots of 'what ifs'

 

[jetajockey]

The feeder thing, it seems like most don't really object to it, but it tends to become questionable when people are deriving pleasure from watching the fish hunt/eat their prey. Example, there's a guy that comes on all of the fish forums just to post new youtube videos of some of his animals eating other animals. It's usually fish eating fish, but i've seen spider eating spider also. He doesn't really contribute to any of the forums other than posting these videos to get more youtube viewers.

 

[HUKIT]

I think we could debate ethics in nearly every aspect of fishkeeping as a whole until we are all old and gray, whether it's hybrids for profit, inbreeding, dyeing fish, poor practices of catching wild caught(especially marine)fish, or just the whole keeping animals as pets. These threads could go for years just like every other topic when emotion is involved including abortion or the death penalty.

 

[mfdrookie516]

For sure. I think there's a generally accepted 'ethical' rule, but lots of things to change it. just like balloon fish, electric blue fish, etc.

 

[HalfMoon B]

For sure. I think there's a generally accepted 'ethical' rule, but lots of things to change it. just like balloon fish, electric blue fish, etc.

All electric blue fish?

 

[adeebm]

Haha, selective breeding is a hornets nest! Is selective breeding degrading the health of our fish for our enjoyment? Are the mutations we find attractive detrimental to our fish? What about culling unwanted fry? Farm raising fish? The list goes on and on... I'm not even sure what my opinions are for those questions.

Also, for fish eating fish videos, is that cruel/unethical or sadistic? I'm sure the fish being fed doesn't mind

--Adeeb