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Old 07-29-2011, 05:26 PM   #51
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I disagree. I personally don't like to watch anything suffer. I don't believe we all possess that desire for savagery. My dad butchers our pigs and we never cause needless suffering. Death is quick and as painless as possible. None of us "enjoy" it, but it is what it is. Death is a natural part of life but I don't find violence at all natural. I personally do not even watch the evening news or a lot of films because I am appalled at the attention given to violence. I find that it disturbs me spiritually so I avoid. I don't pretend to be angelic or place myself on any pedestal but I also can't agree that I enjoy violence. I think that animalistic behavior is best left to animals. We cannot claim "superiority and higher intelligence" when it suits us and then say that we cannot resist "primitive instinct" when that suits our mood later. Humankinds ability to think beyond our animalistic nature to be able to think philosophically does rather set us apart and I firmly believe that if I acknowledge that I know better, it is my responsibility to do better. It basically boils down to respect for all life. I give my plants the same care as my pets. All receive the respectful and nurturing attention that they deserve and that I am capable of providing.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:49 PM   #52
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Quote:
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I disagree. I personally don't like to watch anything suffer. I don't believe we all possess that desire for savagery.
There's always exceptions to every rule. I'm about as anti-cruelty as they come...but I think almost all of us have a touch of a sadistic side. This will be the most extreme example (so I ask forgiveness)...but when the Navy Seals plugged Bin Laden...I don't think many of us would take offense if they had tapped home once...and let him sit there for a while having a "conversation" with him before finishing things off.

Again, an extreme example, but even for me who instead of squishing bugs picks them up in a tissue and places them back outside...there's exceptions and a bit of a dark side to almost all of us.

I believe there's also a difference between being enthralled and awed by watching super predators in their natural environment (I'll be watching Shark Week)...but when animals are removed from their natural environment and humans are directly responsible for the outcome...there's definitely a line drawn there IMO.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:04 PM   #53
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I disagree. I personally don't like to watch anything suffer. I don't believe we all possess that desire for savagery..
I couldn't agree more, some of things I've done when stationed overseas were certainly tough mentally but there were people that simply could not perform their duties no matter what the circumstances or consequences were(I won't get into details and I'll leave it at that) even when their and other lives we are risk.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:14 PM   #54
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This thread definitely got more interesting. I agree with Hukit and eco23. I think that the animal side of us is a very secretive thing for most of the human population. I can't eat meat off of a bone or squish a fly. I can't go near any of my fish when they die (have to call someone to help me, aka my boyfriend). I will swirve off of the road to not kill any animals that happen in front of my car. But, an uber gore-fest blood everywhere new horror movie just came out? I'm all over that. Anything banned in fifteen countries? I'll dig for months trying to find it to watch. It's very selective and probably most people don't realize it, but no matter how much we have evolved outside of our primitive ancestors, we still are just animals. How else could we still have murderers and rapists?
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:36 PM   #55
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In my Opinion!

Good or Evil.... Right or Wrong.... Basically comes down too Choices

Command
Delegated
Avoided
No Brainer

throw some feeder's into your tank for whatever reason. The Fish
are going too do what's in there Nature. Just like People!!
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:24 PM   #56
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throw some feeder's into your tank for whatever reason. The Fish
are going too do what's in there Nature. Just like People!!
I disagree with that. Some people simply throw in the feeders for entertainment. Whenever there are customers around the LFS around here likes to throw some small goldfish in the oscar display just to have the people watch and they like it, which motivates them to buy an oscar themselves.

I believe feeders aren't very humane...it seems you're not doing the best for both the prey and predator. The prey is probably sick and lethargic from poor housing conditioins unless you raise them yourself. The predator will eat this and in turn will get the disease. It's like giving someone moldy sushi. They'll get sick and you're putting fish in pain. It seems more cruel than natural.

edit: Also wanted to add that sometimes feeders isn't always a good thing. Feeding feeders to arowanas all the time can possibly give them a condition called drop eye from all that protien and fat, and as they say, the damage is done.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:34 PM   #57
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I'm certainly not saying that there aren't moments when violent act is necessary. I applaud those people who can do what it takes when it is necessary. I would never be cut out for military duty. I do not have the mental position that it requires. I was merely pointing out that it isn't part of every psyche. My husband and I are exact opposites in this regard. He is a firefighter who is a member of a PD swat team and loves guns and martial arts. He knows that there are things about his job he should never ever tell me. I highly respect him for his ability to reason what he believes is right and necessary and then act on it. I just simply cannot. For example, I go with him to shoot his guns... I prefer to read books or just watch while he fires his weapons. I very rarely ever participate because weapons make me anxious. Neither of us judge the other, because neither of us are wrong. Just completely different.

But I also don't believe that senseless cruelty should be excused by "we can't help our animal instincts". Even though my husband doesn't shy away from violence, he is never cruel. I believe most people when hunting and fishing attempt to make it as painless as possible. They take the time to track their kills and try to gently take the hooks out of fish they intend to throw back. They are respectful of the sanctity of life. These are the folks who take conscientious care of their pets and the natural world around them. The folks who don't, don't do so out of a predatory animal drive. They do so out of disrespect and laziness.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:38 PM   #58
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I thought long and hard about this thread. I wanted to write a long response coming from several angles. Instead, I'll offer a succinct response that most accurately sums up my thoughts on the thread so far. It's a quote from a John Burdett book(The quote is play on a line from a T.S. Elliots poem.):

"Decent people cannot stand very much reality."
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:49 PM   #59
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Quote:
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"Decent people cannot stand very much reality."
I couldn't agree with you more. Very eloquent.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:13 PM   #60
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Some times you just have to. At one point in my life I din't even kill a bug for about 30 years. At one time I had 26 tanks. Now ill kill things but don't like it. Now I have one tank with a fry (baby in the overflow). I don't want another tank. I don't likeit but what can I do. The baby will die some times you just have to.
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