I need help with opening a LFS

[IchthyChris]

I wasn't sure where to post this to get the best advice, so you may see it again...

I want to open a fish store in the Seattle/Fremont area in Washington. It would start as freshwater and maybe add saltwater later. I have good resources for setting up a business, but not exactly in the fish trade. I need budget advice (what lease price range I should be looking at, profit expectations, initial stocking, etc) stocking advice (how to get distributer contacts, best items to stock, etc) and any other useful advice you can give. If you don't want to give away your trade secrets, PM me.

 

[Ukdans1k]

Without being rude, if you don't have much experience with fish, this may not be the business for you. There is so much to learn, and getting a bad reputation from the start will not see you good. I've have personally never return to a shop where the fish don't look good or the advice is bad!!!

If I've miss read your post and you have experience at fish keeping then I would say this:

A lot of fish shops, tend to stock tetras, barbs, plays, mollies general community easy to keep fish. These are more common to keep for beginners and seem to have a high turn over and bread and butter earners.

Cichlids will bring in bigger money but you may not sell as many as they more specialist. Also there are lots of different species from both American and Africa.

All I would say is visit as many lfs as you can and see what they stock.

You could specialise in certain fish, if I can find it I can give you details of a company in Africa that export wild caught cichlids.

Good luck

 

[IchthyChris]

I should have mentioned that I would consider myself an advanced fish keeper. It's more than a hobby, it's a sickness. I have a good idea of the basic fish I would stock, but since I've never dealt with a distributer, I don't know distributer costs and whether certain fish are more profitable than others. As far as non livestock, should I sell aquariums or just equipment? Are there aquarium sizes i should stock more of? Of course I would have food and meds and possibly a DYI supplies section.

 

[Ukdans1k]

I totally understand the obsession side of things! Lol sorry if my last post sounded patronising, wasn't sure of certain things.

Have a look for a thread called "tanked" it talks about the tv show and mentions the locations of two suppliers of fish to the trade. Might help.

Hope it helps

 

[Mrc8858]

I should have mentioned that I would consider myself an advanced fish keeper. It's more than a hobby, it's a sickness. I have a good idea of the basic fish I would stock, but since I've never dealt with a distributer, I don't know distributer costs and whether certain fish are more profitable than others. As far as non livestock, should I sell aquariums or just equipment? Are there aquarium sizes i should stock more of? Of course I would have food and meds and possibly a DYI supplies section.

Really it will all depend on what's "hot" in your area...the higher the average income obviously the more money being spent on hobbies or addictions in some of our cases lol but you would be best off watching what sells in your large chain stores...for the tanks your most common tanks being sold is your 5-29 gallon tanks and 55s a bit for the person looking for a large tank but you would be well off trying to find a tank distributor so that when you do have that guy/gal looking for a 300 gallon tank you can order and get your cut off the top just for a phone call pretty much but obviously there is a whole lot more you will need to begin looking into because it is still a business so legal issues would be first such as proper licensing

 

[Mrc8858]

Another thing with stocking fish that you will have to consider is the real estate a fish will take up, then how much will you make off that fish, and the time it will normally take to sell it..there is also the options of keeping breeders if you have enough room to sell your own fry and periodically purchase new f1 or f2 parents for new blood since line breeding takes its toll on fish genetics

 

[IchthyChris]

Really it will all depend on what's "hot" in your area...the higher the average income obviously the more money being spent on hobbies or addictions in some of our cases lol but you would be best off watching what sells in your large chain stores...for the tanks your most common tanks being sold is your 5-29 gallon tanks and 55s a bit for the person looking for a large tank but you would be well off trying to find a tank distributor so that when you do have that guy/gal looking for a 300 gallon tank you can order and get your cut off the top just for a phone call pretty much but obviously there is a whole lot more you will need to begin looking into because it is still a business so legal issues would be first such as proper licensing

Good points. The area I'm looking at is full of rich hipsters . What I'm really trying to do is guesstimate overhead vs profit. I know my biggest cost is going to be the property lease. If I can get a rough estimate of profit minus overhead I could then have an idea how big of a space I can afford. Would hate to have to go bankrupt shortly after opening. I know it's all relative but I'll take all the insight I can get. As far as the legal stuff, I got it covered.

 

[BillD]

The first thing that needs to be done is assess the market, and the competition. Then you need to determine what your potential market share might be, and can you take business from the competition. The pie isn't going to get bigger because you open a store. You need to determine how much of that pie you can carve out for yourself. None of the rest matters if the numbers don't make sense.
Markup on fish seems to run anywhere from 300% to 600%. Tanks are pretty much sold for cost by the successful stores. It is like the hook on the end of the line. Once you have the tank, you need to get the rest of the hardware, which is where the money is. Around here the big stores are Big Al's, some of which are franchises. This may be a path for you to consider as well. it gives you a direct hook up to supppliers and group buys.

 

[Coursair]

Well I'm lucky to live near an ADA distributor store, Aqua Forest. Pricey tanks, great plants, amazing display tanks, a few nice fish and shrimp. Lots of supplies, CO2 set ups and ferts.

Little store, lots of fans
http://www.adana-usa.com/

Finding either a wide customer base or a good niche is the decision.

 

[IchthyChris]

The first thing that needs to be done is assess the market, and the competition. Then you need to determine what your potential market share might be, and can you take business from the competition. The pie isn't going to get bigger because you open a store. You need to determine how much of that pie you can carve out for yourself. None of the rest matters if the numbers don't make sense.
Markup on fish seems to run anywhere from 300% to 600%. Tanks are pretty much sold for cost by the successful stores. It is like the hook on the end of the line. Once you have the tank, you need to get the rest of the hardware, which is where the money is. Around here the big stores are Big Al's, some of which are franchises. This may be a path for you to consider as well. it gives you a direct hook up to supppliers and group buys.

300 - 600% markup is the kind of info I need. Tanks at cost makes sense too. I've done a little marketing research. The nearest fish stores to the area I'm looking at are 4 to 6 miles away. There are three downtown that are all within 6 blocks of each other in china town. They are kind of on the bartering system so I don't think I have to worry about that market. There is one about 4 miles away on the highway that mostly gets highway traffic and two Petsmarts that are about 7 miles away, both to the north. The biggest competitor would be 4 miles away. A locally owned store that deals with a lot of the local breeders (my favorite store). All locations are to the north east and south. Nothing to the west.

 

[jetajockey]

I can give you a few basics. First, most LFS utilize one of the major fish farms. I've worked with segrest farms a bit and once you have a brick and mortar store they basically give you access to their stock list, you fill out an order and they send it to you. The most common markup is ~300%, but it can vary from market to market, you just need to get a feel for what things cost around your area to know how to tweak this. Also figure out if there are any clubs/home breeders in your relative area as this is another potential source for stock (check the laws of course).

Figure out a hole in the market in your area and fill it. Get to know your product in and out, use the internet to understand what sells, and find the balance between popular and feasible. I suggest finding a niche that you love, and finally, put your as much of your life into it as you can, as your end result will be dictated by the effort and love put into building it.

 

[Botanica]

I can give you a few basics. First, most LFS utilize one of the major fish farms. I've worked with segrest farms a bit and once you have a brick and mortar store they basically give you access to their stock list, you fill out an order and they send it to you. The most common markup is ~300%, but it can vary from market to market, you just need to get a feel for what things cost around your area to know how to tweak this. Also figure out if there are any clubs/home breeders in your relative area as this is another potential source for stock (check the laws of course).

Figure out a hole in the market in your area and fill it. Get to know your product in and out, use the internet to understand what sells, and find the balance between popular and feasible. I suggest finding a niche that you love, and finally, put your as much of your life into it as you can, as your end result will be dictated by the effort and love put into building it.

Very well said!

 

[Ukdans1k]

Something else to think about is shipping. There are several sites on the web now that you can simply click and have your fish sent to you. This could be a road to go down maybe??? There is a ship here in the uk that is to far for me to visit. But most product they sell can be found on his eBay shop. Of course the price is a little higher but the postage is usually free.

If you choose to post fish out think about your returns policy d.o.a etc. as there will be cost that you will incur if things go wrong. As people will most defiantly try it on!!!!!

Obviously a web page is a cost to think about.

To be honest if you have the room at home, you could make just as much money, breeding and selling your own fish. Either by posting out or having people come buy from you. This way you don't have the overheads.

I found a chap here in the uk that can get fish from aquabeek and Czech breeders for a couple of euros each. A fraction of the cost of lfs. If I had the time it would be easy to buy a few hundred pounds of fish, just to sell locally or on eBay. This might be a good starting point as you have less to loose, can build up a rep, with low overheads. Once you get established you can then move to bigger shop.

I tend to only go to shops I know, and know are good. and stick to theses few. I've popped into new shop to see what's in offer but tend not to go back.

Also theses days with less money about its easy to buy fish from local breeders cheap, and a lot of fish clubs hold auctions were fish sell really cheap. I just went to one and two massive wild caught from jeff rapps ( not sure what they were) but were south American cichlids I think) breeding pair went for £10 the pair!!! Breeding pair of oscars about 10 inches each £6 the pair!!!

So I would say this is your biggest completion.

 

[IchthyChris]

Thanks guys! Useful info! Keep it coming!

 

[Tcal01]

Something else to think about is shipping. There are several sites on the web now that you can simply click and have your fish sent to you. This could be a road to go down maybe??? There is a ship here in the uk that is to far for me to visit. But most product they sell can be found on his eBay shop. Of course the price is a little higher but the postage is usually free.

If you choose to post fish out think about your returns policy d.o.a etc. as there will be cost that you will incur if things go wrong. As people will most defiantly try it on!!!!!

Obviously a web page is a cost to think about.

To be honest if you have the room at home, you could make just as much money, breeding and selling your own fish. Either by posting out or having people come buy from you. This way you don't have the overheads.

I found a chap here in the uk that can get fish from aquabeek and Czech breeders for a couple of euros each. A fraction of the cost of lfs. If I had the time it would be easy to buy a few hundred pounds of fish, just to sell locally or on eBay. This might be a good starting point as you have less to loose, can build up a rep, with low overheads. Once you get established you can then move to bigger shop.

I tend to only go to shops I know, and know are good. and stick to theses few. I've popped into new shop to see what's in offer but tend not to go back.

Also theses days with less money about its easy to buy fish from local breeders cheap, and a lot of fish clubs hold auctions were fish sell really cheap. I just went to one and two massive wild caught from jeff rapps ( not sure what they were) but were south American cichlids i think) breeding pair went for £10 the pair!!! Breeding pair of oscars about 10 inches each £6 the pair!!!

So I would say this is your biggest completion.

For example this Brian's tropicals. All of his stuff is in his basement. Here is his website ("rich hipsters" was hiiiilaaarious BTW. Totally Seattle lol)

http://www.brianstropicals.com/

 

[Mogurako]

Chris I hate to break it to you but there are tons of well established LFS is Seattle ( example: http://www.thefishstoreseattle.com/ ) that have been around for years and I think you'll have a hell of a time breaking into this niche.

There has been members of the Greater Seattle Aquarium Society ( GSAS) that opened their own store and shortly there after went bankrupt. Your best bet is to buy an already established store or to start some sort of Internet based operation that's based out of your home.

 

[IchthyChris]

For example this Brian's tropicals. All of his stuff is in his basement. Here is his website ("rich hipsters" was hiiiilaaarious BTW. Totally Seattle lol)

http://www.brianstropicals.com/

Sweet! I was actually thinking I should go the basement rout to establish a business. Good to see someone has made a successful go at it. I'm still in the process of basement shopping.

The store is not something I want to rush into. I'm gathering all the info I can for now. It's still in the concept stage. Hopefully no one steals my spot in the next few years. The rich hipster market is perfect!

 

[Mogurako]

Basement/fish room with Internet sales is really the best way start out, IMO.

What types of fish were you thinking of starting out with?

 

[IchthyChris]

Chris I hate to break it to you but there are tons of well established LFS is Seattle ( example: http://www.thefishstoreseattle.com/ ) that have been around for years and I think you'll have a hell of a time breaking into this niche.

There has been members of the Greater Seattle Aquarium Society ( GSAS) that opened their own store and shortly there after went bankrupt. Your best bet is to buy an already established store or to start some sort of Internet based operation that's based out of your home.

"the fish store" is the one I mentioned as my favorite. That one would really be the only competition for the area I'm looking at. If you're familiar with Seattle then you know that close doesn't really mean anything. Some areas are just a hassle to get to from other areas which is actually great for businesses as they can be located close to competition and still have their own "easy access" radius. Seattle City Planning... pshhh. I think our street system was planned as a connect the dots puzzle.

 

[Mogurako]

"I think our street system was planned as a connect the dots puzzle.

Haha yea I think it was, I hate going downtown. I think you do have a fairly good point about the radius of easy access.