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Old 01-27-2013, 04:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ktomminello View Post

Lol, you could always use the logical explanation of easier maintenance, less chemicals, less water change outs....
Will try that....will also push the 'it's almost my Birthday' card
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:45 PM   #22
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oooh that one works even better, lol.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:36 PM   #23
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My research started about a year ago, and yes, full marine, when fully grown or almost fully grown is the best set up, they will die within a couple years maximum in freshwater and once you hit the high end of brackish they won't 'snap out of it' until you bump salinity up to 1.021 at least. I learned this the hard way, this is where my stunted growth question surfaced. He was only an inch and a half when I turned him and his growth was fast in mid brackish, when I turned him salt he stopped growing for about a month and a half, he then hit a growth spurt which stopped at 4 inches, this is pretty close to maximum size in captivity...
Your research definitely started before mine, I believe I started researching close to 6 months or more ago. I knew I wanted a puffer, saw the green spotted, and began researching from there. I got a lot of help and information from another forum I'm apart of. I was going to start with a 29 gallon and I actually purchased the tank but after more research and advice from those who have owned GSPs (seeing a full grown in marine conditions in a 55 gallon helped as well) I looked for a larger tank and thats when I got the 60. I have since decided against a GSP, not because I don't like them (I still do) but because of my tank size and because I wanted tankmates. I know the GSP can be pretty aggressive as they age and I know because of its larger size (versus toby puffers) the GSP would add more to the GSP.

I was actually going to start out the GSP in full marine because it would be more cost effective in the long run, versus keeping it in high end brackish. It also wouldn't cause any ill effects to the puffer as well.

Yours is pretty close to max growth but I wouldn't be surprised if he keeps growing. I'm sure his growth rate has slowed down considerably so it will just take time.

I wish you luck with your GSP. I hope to have one on down the road when I'm able to set up a tank for GSP of adequate size/etc.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:54 PM   #24
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Thank u v much for info!! Loved the pics too. I had never seen such tiny fish as these little puffers in my pet shop today..about 1cm each if that!!! I was considering a species only tank (herd they are mean little dudes) how big a tank do u think for 2 or 3 if they only grow to 2.5cms eventually? They are 4 each if that helps (herd the true freshwater puffer are expensive??) great to have experienced people to help!!! Thanks again
The dwarf puffers, Carinotetraodon travancoricus, need at least 5 gallons a piece, of course more is always better. So a 30 gallon like mentioned would be more than enough room for 2. With a 30 gallon you could easily have four dwarf puffers. It would be best to have a male and three females if you did stock that way. Even with two I'd think two males might would fight but maybe not in a 30 gallon.

Heres a little information on them (copied and pasted-not mine):

"Scientific name: Carinotetraodon travancoricus.
Physical description: 1” max. Rounded bodies, pale or olive green with dark spots.
Lifespan: Varies. 3-8 years.

Care level: Intermediate.
Tank size: 5g for the first, with another 3g for each additional puffer. With these guys, less is NOT more. They have very heavy bioloads, and 5g per additional puffer is always a good idea.

Temperature range: 74-82.
Water hardness: Soft water is ideal, and usually required for breeding, but they will suffer no ill effects from hard water.
pH range: 6.5-7.2. HOWEVER, it should be noted that most fish purchased in pet/chain stores are farmed and raised in water much different than their native habitats. Also, most fish will adapt to reasonable water conditions given the proper acclimation techniques are used. My fish are totally content in a pH of 8.2. Wild-caught fish may be more sensitive, but tank-bred dwarves are becoming more widely available, and it’s always preferable to avoid wild-caught fish. Not only can it be invasive in their natural habitats, but tank-bred fish are generally hardier, and carry less diseases than their wild-caught counterparts.

Diet: Carnivorous. Live snails and live or frozen worms (bloodworms, blackworms) are great staples. Small live or frozen freshwater shrimp are also appreciated, and live brine shrimp are nice treats. Dried or prepared food of any sort will almost certainly not be accepted. Raw seafood is a healthy choice and can be offered, but it is usually not accepted. Vitamins are always appreciated.
Added 4/9/2010: The renowned scientist and hobbyist Dr. Robert T. Ricketts (RTR on thepufferforum.com) stated that in his experience, DPs do best on a diet of live blackworms and live snails. I don’t know anyone who’s been keeping DPs longer than he has. Also, in my experience, I have noticed that blackworms as a staple give my DPs the rounded look that a really healthy DP should have. Frozen bloodworms as a staple leave them leaner.

Compatibility: Much of this will depend on the individual personality of your puffer(s). In general, they are tenacious and territorial, and they are unstoppable fin-nippers. They will harass much larger fish without fear. Ideal tankmates are otocinclus catfish (please see brief species profile at the bottom of this article). Possible tankmates include ghost/cherry/Amano shrimp or fast-moving fish that do not have flowing fins. Absolute no-nos are slow-moving creatures or fish with long, flowing fins. (Mr. Betta is definitely out, unless you feel that his fins need trimming.)

Sexing: Sexing is very easy with adults and older juveniles. It’s also extremely important when keeping multiple dwarves together. If you have more than one male, you will need to provide at least two females for each male to prevent conflict.

Male
-Slimmer body
-Darker coloration
-Spots turn to stripes as male reaches maturity
-Markings resembling wrinkles behind the eyes
-Belly is yellow, with a darker stripe down the center
-An adult male will sometimes “keel.” He does this by raising the skin along his back and belly stripe into ridges, which make him appear taller and fatter when viewed from the side. This display is used to intimidate other males and impress females.
Female
-Rounded body
-Paler coloration
A picture is worth a thousand words, so please refer to the included photos. It is difficult, if not impossible, to sex juveniles (young males resemble females, and females look the same all their lives), and adults are not usually available. This is the main difficulty in stocking the tank. Many owners wind up trading their male dwarves once or twice in order to obtain the correct m/f ratio.

Other info:
-Do not attempt to cycle the tank with dwarf puffers. The tank must, must, must be cycled before you bring them home! Otherwise, your new pal will probably die. Pufferfish are scaleless, and they are extremely sensitive to poor water quality. A water testing kit is an essential tool. Get tests for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
-Water changes should be performed weekly, and should be at least 50%, unless you understock (always nice). These fish have heavy bioloads.
-Because they are scaleless, they are extremely sensitive to medications. Be very careful about what goes in. Ich should always be treated with salt and heat for a full month, rather than with meds.
-A planted tank (real or fake) is appreciated. Driftwood is also a great choice, especially if you want to lower the pH a bit. Heavy decorating is necessary for keeping these intelligent, inquisitive fish entertained; otherwise, they will spend all their time pacing the glass.
-Please do not try to make them puff up. It is animal cruelty to attempt to scare them for your personal amusement. -That being said, don’t worry if they don’t puff, or if they puff for no apparent reason. Either of these is normal.
-This species is known to breed without any conditioning or “mood-setting” from the owner, but this is quite rare. It is probably the easiest of all puffer species to breed.
-There is some debate as to whether two seperate species have arisen in captive-bred fish. The only known differences are in coloring, and these are only slight. Their care will be exactly the same.
-Dwarf puffers are becoming more and more widely available; if your LFS does not stock them, they will probably be able to order them. They are also available from LiveAquaria.com.
-These fish have great personalities, and they’re totally adorable, very intelligent, and amusing. I enjoy my pair very much. -All other species of puffers are at risk for dental issues (overgrown teeth) if not fed “crunchy” foods like snails, shrimp, crabs, etc. DPs are unique in that they don’t seem to suffer from this problem. I have known of two circumstances of overgrown teeth in DPs, and only one seemed to be legit - I highly suspect that the other case was actually a different problem. I have had mine for almost a year (as of 1/16/2010, the current date - I’m updating this profile) and fed them very few crunchy foods during this time, and I have seen no change in their mouths during this time.
-Use caution when transporting DPs. Puffers cannot be exposed to air (except in the direst of circumstances, such as if you have spilled a bottle of bleach in the tank), as a panicked puffer may puff, and when they take in air instead of water, they may not be able to expel it. This is a deadly condition. It is often possible to “burp” a puffer by holding it underwater with its tail down and head up and gently massaging the belly, OR by grabbing the tail and jerking it firmly downwards several times. If this does not remove the air and the puffer can’t manage it on its own, the result is much like swim bladder disorder, but more severe and instantaneous. The puffer will probably not be able to swim downwards and will exhaust itself trying to do so. The panic and shock often lead to death. This is why it is CRUCIAL that you do not remove it from the water! Shoo it into a container with a net and dump it into the other tank/holding container."


Source: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/...arfpuffercare/

Good luck! They are such cute little guys!
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by amanda_marie View Post

The dwarf puffers, Carinotetraodon travancoricus, need at least 5 gallons a piece, of course more is always better. So a 30 gallon like mentioned would be more than enough room for 2. With a 30 gallon you could easily have four dwarf puffers. It would be best to have a male and three females if you did stock that way. Even with two I'd think two males might would fight but maybe not in a 30 gallon.

Heres a little information on them (copied and pasted-not mine):

"Scientific name: Carinotetraodon travancoricus.
Physical description: 1” max. Rounded bodies, pale or olive green with dark spots.
Lifespan: Varies. 3-8 years.

Care level: Intermediate.
Tank size: 5g for the first, with another 3g for each additional puffer. With these guys, less is NOT more. They have very heavy bioloads, and 5g per additional puffer is always a good idea.

Temperature range: 74-82.
Water hardness: Soft water is ideal, and usually required for breeding, but they will suffer no ill effects from hard water.
pH range: 6.5-7.2. HOWEVER, it should be noted that most fish purchased in pet/chain stores are farmed and raised in water much different than their native habitats. Also, most fish will adapt to reasonable water conditions given the proper acclimation techniques are used. My fish are totally content in a pH of 8.2. Wild-caught fish may be more sensitive, but tank-bred dwarves are becoming more widely available, and it’s always preferable to avoid wild-caught fish. Not only can it be invasive in their natural habitats, but tank-bred fish are generally hardier, and carry less diseases than their wild-caught counterparts.

Diet: Carnivorous. Live snails and live or frozen worms (bloodworms, blackworms) are great staples. Small live or frozen freshwater shrimp are also appreciated, and live brine shrimp are nice treats. Dried or prepared food of any sort will almost certainly not be accepted. Raw seafood is a healthy choice and can be offered, but it is usually not accepted. Vitamins are always appreciated.
Added 4/9/2010: The renowned scientist and hobbyist Dr. Robert T. Ricketts (RTR on thepufferforum.com) stated that in his experience, DPs do best on a diet of live blackworms and live snails. I don’t know anyone who’s been keeping DPs longer than he has. Also, in my experience, I have noticed that blackworms as a staple give my DPs the rounded look that a really healthy DP should have. Frozen bloodworms as a staple leave them leaner.

Compatibility: Much of this will depend on the individual personality of your puffer(s). In general, they are tenacious and territorial, and they are unstoppable fin-nippers. They will harass much larger fish without fear. Ideal tankmates are otocinclus catfish (please see brief species profile at the bottom of this article). Possible tankmates include ghost/cherry/Amano shrimp or fast-moving fish that do not have flowing fins. Absolute no-nos are slow-moving creatures or fish with long, flowing fins. (Mr. Betta is definitely out, unless you feel that his fins need trimming.)

Sexing: Sexing is very easy with adults and older juveniles. It’s also extremely important when keeping multiple dwarves together. If you have more than one male, you will need to provide at least two females for each male to prevent conflict.

Male
-Slimmer body
-Darker coloration
-Spots turn to stripes as male reaches maturity
-Markings resembling wrinkles behind the eyes
-Belly is yellow, with a darker stripe down the center
-An adult male will sometimes “keel.” He does this by raising the skin along his back and belly stripe into ridges, which make him appear taller and fatter when viewed from the side. This display is used to intimidate other males and impress females.
Female
-Rounded body
-Paler coloration
A picture is worth a thousand words, so please refer to the included photos. It is difficult, if not impossible, to sex juveniles (young males resemble females, and females look the same all their lives), and adults are not usually available. This is the main difficulty in stocking the tank. Many owners wind up trading their male dwarves once or twice in order to obtain the correct m/f ratio.

Other info:
-Do not attempt to cycle the tank with dwarf puffers. The tank must, must, must be cycled before you bring them home! Otherwise, your new pal will probably die. Pufferfish are scaleless, and they are extremely sensitive to poor water quality. A water testing kit is an essential tool. Get tests for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
-Water changes should be performed weekly, and should be at least 50%, unless you understock (always nice). These fish have heavy bioloads.
-Because they are scaleless, they are extremely sensitive to medications. Be very careful about what goes in. Ich should always be treated with salt and heat for a full month, rather than with meds.
-A planted tank (real or fake) is appreciated. Driftwood is also a great choice, especially if you want to lower the pH a bit. Heavy decorating is necessary for keeping these intelligent, inquisitive fish entertained; otherwise, they will spend all their time pacing the glass.
-Please do not try to make them puff up. It is animal cruelty to attempt to scare them for your personal amusement. -That being said, don’t worry if they don’t puff, or if they puff for no apparent reason. Either of these is normal.
-This species is known to breed without any conditioning or “mood-setting” from the owner, but this is quite rare. It is probably the easiest of all puffer species to breed.
-There is some debate as to whether two seperate species have arisen in captive-bred fish. The only known differences are in coloring, and these are only slight. Their care will be exactly the same.
-Dwarf puffers are becoming more and more widely available; if your LFS does not stock them, they will probably be able to order them. They are also available from LiveAquaria.com.
-These fish have great personalities, and they’re totally adorable, very intelligent, and amusing. I enjoy my pair very much. -All other species of puffers are at risk for dental issues (overgrown teeth) if not fed “crunchy” foods like snails, shrimp, crabs, etc. DPs are unique in that they don’t seem to suffer from this problem. I have known of two circumstances of overgrown teeth in DPs, and only one seemed to be legit - I highly suspect that the other case was actually a different problem. I have had mine for almost a year (as of 1/16/2010, the current date - I’m updating this profile) and fed them very few crunchy foods during this time, and I have seen no change in their mouths during this time.
-Use caution when transporting DPs. Puffers cannot be exposed to air (except in the direst of circumstances, such as if you have spilled a bottle of bleach in the tank), as a panicked puffer may puff, and when they take in air instead of water, they may not be able to expel it. This is a deadly condition. It is often possible to “burp” a puffer by holding it underwater with its tail down and head up and gently massaging the belly, OR by grabbing the tail and jerking it firmly downwards several times. If this does not remove the air and the puffer can’t manage it on its own, the result is much like swim bladder disorder, but more severe and instantaneous. The puffer will probably not be able to swim downwards and will exhaust itself trying to do so. The panic and shock often lead to death. This is why it is CRUCIAL that you do not remove it from the water! Shoo it into a container with a net and dump it into the other tank/holding container."

Source: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/...arfpuffercare/

Good luck! They are such cute little guys!
That is fantastic!! Thank u sooooo much.....feeling a little impatient now
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:17 PM   #26
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Your research definitely started before mine, I believe I started researching close to 6 months or more ago. I knew I wanted a puffer, saw the green spotted, and began researching from there. I got a lot of help and information from another forum I'm apart of. I was going to start with a 29 gallon and I actually purchased the tank but after more research and advice from those who have owned GSPs (seeing a full grown in marine conditions in a 55 gallon helped as well) I looked for a larger tank and thats when I got the 60. I have since decided against a GSP, not because I don't like them (I still do) but because of my tank size and because I wanted tankmates. I know the GSP can be pretty aggressive as they age and I know because of its larger size (versus toby puffers) the GSP would add more to the GSP.

I was actually going to start out the GSP in full marine because it would be more cost effective in the long run, versus keeping it in high end brackish. It also wouldn't cause any ill effects to the puffer as well.

Yours is pretty close to max growth but I wouldn't be surprised if he keeps growing. I'm sure his growth rate has slowed down considerably so it will just take time.

I wish you luck with your GSP. I hope to have one on down the road when I'm able to set up a tank for GSP of adequate size/etc.
My GSP is overwhelmed by a 40g. I'm going to have more options with my BC at this point in time, because of the way it is set up and the amount of live rock I can have in the back and a smaller more dense build in the front to make it scaped out nice with hiding places for all my critters, keeping my fingers crossed for my peppermint shrimp, I think he has a chance if I set up the cube and add him and the rest of my nano algae eaters (peppy is my only true scavenger, the rest are "CUC" snails) first in an aquascape that caters to hiding rock dwellers from a very violent puffer I'm hoping I'll only have to replace peppermint shrimp every month or 2 if I keep puff fed with clams, crabs, table shrimp and large "nuisance snails" from the freshwater world peppy will have a chance at least- puffy had a crab friend for about 6 months until he killed him, lol. They are about the same size, puff is clumsy and bumbling, peppy is quick and hides VERY well. I have all of my live rock rubble finally all broken up and ready to go into the back "refugium" area and my sand all ready to transfer from my 10g, add the filter mediums including a chemi pure bag, nitrifying bacteria promoting biofloss and a seeded sponge filter, that combined with the 10g of purified real ocean water, topped off with water from my 40g and I should be through my mini cycle in no time. I can't wait!!!! I'm starting in the morning- hoping to have it aquascaped, filled and cycling by tomorrow night- have my snails and peppy in there by the end of next week and puffy 2 weeks after that. I'll post pics as I take them.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:43 PM   #27
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My GSP is overwhelmed by a 40g. I'm going to have more options with my BC at this point in time, because of the way it is set up and the amount of live rock I can have in the back and a smaller more dense build in the front to make it scaped out nice with hiding places for all my critters, keeping my fingers crossed for my peppermint shrimp, I think he has a chance if I set up the cube and add him and the rest of my nano algae eaters (peppy is my only true scavenger, the rest are "CUC" snails) first in an aquascape that caters to hiding rock dwellers from a very violent puffer I'm hoping I'll only have to replace peppermint shrimp every month or 2 if I keep puff fed with clams, crabs, table shrimp and large "nuisance snails" from the freshwater world peppy will have a chance at least- puffy had a crab friend for about 6 months until he killed him, lol. They are about the same size, puff is clumsy and bumbling, peppy is quick and hides VERY well. I have all of my live rock rubble finally all broken up and ready to go into the back "refugium" area and my sand all ready to transfer from my 10g, add the filter mediums including a chemi pure bag, nitrifying bacteria promoting biofloss and a seeded sponge filter, that combined with the 10g of purified real ocean water, topped off with water from my 40g and I should be through my mini cycle in no time. I can't wait!!!! I'm starting in the morning- hoping to have it aquascaped, filled and cycling by tomorrow night- have my snails and peppy in there by the end of next week and puffy 2 weeks after that. I'll post pics as I take them.

I'm a little confused by some of your post.

What do you mean your GSP is overwhelmed by the 40g? Do you have it set up and have him in it and he looked overwhelmed/nervous or something? Sorry I'm just confused

If you do have the 40g that could be his home (or he's already in it), I'd keep him in it. He's going to be nervous at first just from being moved I'd assume, no matter the tank size. Once he gets accustomed to the new tank, whatever it may be, I'm sure he'll be back to his old self and be out exploring as usual. Sorry if I misunderstood the situation. Also, I'd definitely think the 40g would be easier in terms of the aquascaping because of its larger footprint. Even though my tank is a 60 it wasn't fun to aquascape because of its width of only 12inches.

I wish you luck with him and the inverts Maybe some will be clever and quick enough to escape him for some time. I feel the same as you though. I don't have my toby puffer yet (probably in the next month) but I do have inverts that may very well become a snack, including two peppermint shrimp actually. If they get eaten over time and I replace occasionally I don't have a problem with that. I feel some will be able to avoid the puffer for some time or that at least the puffer may not show much interest until it gets larger. We'll see.

Sounds like you've got a great diet routine for the guy. I'd think that could help with him eating his tankmates. I actually set up a tank for breeding ramshorn snails when I first knew I was wanting to get a puffer. Is this what you did as well?

I look forward to seeing your progress and pictures!
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:37 PM   #28
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I have him in a 40g breeder right now, but I need to build a stand and I want to go all out and attach my 10g nano as a raised refugium, this will be when I feel I'll be happily housing enough shrimp to keep him fed.... But in the mean time my husband gave me the BC, well because to build the breeder with attached refugium I have to empty both tanks and reseal and build a sump along with a stand for the 40g and so on and so forth, which is why I'm glad he's a slow grower- at the size he is now and the rate at which he's grown I'll have more than enough time to build his tank and plan something fun for a BC29, who knows- gotta do some research.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:53 PM   #29
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I have him in a 40g breeder right now, but I need to build a stand and I want to go all out and attach my 10g nano as a raised refugium, this will be when I feel I'll be happily housing enough shrimp to keep him fed.... But in the mean time my husband gave me the BC, well because to build the breeder with attached refugium I have to empty both tanks and reseal and build a sump along with a stand for the 40g and so on and so forth, which is why I'm glad he's a slow grower- at the size he is now and the rate at which he's grown I'll have more than enough time to build his tank and plan something fun for a BC29, who knows- gotta do some research.

Ah, I see. That makes sense

I'd say he'll be fine in the 29 while you prepare the 40g/stand/etc., especially at his size. I'd just keep track of the water parameters so you're able to keep up with the water changes needed with his bioload in the 29g as opposed to the extra water volume the 40g has provided. Though I'm sure you know that

The 40g will definitely be great for him when you have it completed, especially with the refugium too. Look forward to seeing it!
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:32 PM   #30
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I have the lumber and tools for build- but that's gonna have to wait until I completely set up my bc. I've got it assembled and started adding water from my 10g and cycling it to the bc slowly with boxed ocean water- to clean up my rocks, then the fun begins!! I'll try to figure out how to delete pics so I can post more of my bc set up...
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