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Old 10-04-2012, 04:04 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by baron1282 View Post
Krusty56

We have all been there!! I bought fish that would outgrow my tank "Clown Loaches"! Awesome fish, but I didn't read up on them nor did I do my research. Most of the people here do a lot of talking, like they are the only voice when it comes to fish tanks. Don't let that get too you. What they fail to tell you is how much fish they have killed over the years to learn the lessons they now know. I learned that upgrading after the fact is not always great, as the move stressed my fish and they died.

A lot of people here telling you to upgraded, but offered little advice on where to get a good deal. Go to Craigslist, you wouldn't believe some deals you can get. I saw one on my list for a 125 for FREE! No stand nothing, just the tank! I have seen 200 gallon tanks with basic stuff that will work until you can upgrade the equipment for as low as 200 dollars. It can be done and done cheaply!! If you know where to look. The petco $1 a gallon sale is great and all, but you still have to buy everything else, so you end up spending a lot more. Tanks are not the issue with prices, it's the equipment.

We have all killed fish, it happens. We have all rushed into buying a fish before we knew what to do. Don't let people tell you that you did something wrong, because you didn't. You saw a fish you liked and bought it. Now you know!!! Get others the information before they start a tank. Now you know to research before buying a fish, and now you know that each fish has their own needs. Now you can inform others, before they make the same mistake. Good luck with the upgrade and don't let others get you down.
Oh, so it is OK to stick a fish that requires a 50+ gallon tank into a 10 gallon tank? Knowing that you are not going to be able to accommodate him because of "other" issues? The fish is already stressed enough from the being caught, shoved in a tiny bag, then take for a car ride, then put into a tiny little tank that is WELL below their requirements...

Craigslist is great, but not always, you get a tank, say you pay $50 for it, then 2 days later it starts leaking, well you are SOL most of the time. If you pay for it from a retail establishment, you have a chance to drain it and return it. I would rather pay $1 per gallon and know that the tank is backed by the LFS for at least 30 days, and then I have receipts etc. to show to the manufacturer if something does break. To each is their own

I do not agree that it is OK to run out and get fish and cram them into whatever size tank you have. He did the right thing by returning it (assuming he did). I am no fish expert, which is why I joined this community, I inherited a 30gallon tank from a friend that was FULL OF FISH. It was way overstocked, I did the right thing and returned some of the bigger ones and bought a new 55 gallon tank, moved some to the 55 gallon, and kept some in the 30 gallon.

Fish are just like any other animal / pet. If you want a dog, you need to make sure you can support it and provide it with what it needs. Not just get it and feed it cat food for a month until you can afford to get dog food, or keep it in a tiny little room until you can afford to get it a bigger one.

It is one thing to buy a fish that "will" outgrow its tank, it is another to buy a fish that has already outgrown the tank. I have a Bala in a 55 gallon tank, I know he will outgrow it in a few years, and by then I will have a much larger tank (or 2), but for now, it fits him well.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:40 PM   #102
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I never said it was ok! I said we all make mistakes.

To call someone out on a mistake and than act like you are somehow better than that person is just wrong.

I made the mistake, and I tried to upgrade. It killed my fish and I learned my lesson. Now I do research and tell everyone I can the importance of research.

Just because I said Craigslist is a good place to get a tank, does not mean you shouldn't make a wise choice in the tank you buy. Many threads already exist on how to make sure the tank you buy is a good tank. Craigslist can be a great place if you know how to buy, and it can help in an emergency upgrade.

Fish are just like any other animal and I agree 100%!! I just didn't know about tank sizes and fish requirements when I first started out. Just like 90% of people that start in this hobby. I choose not to call someone out and make them feel like they are the scum of the earth. I choose to educate in hopes that one day they will educate others to not make the same mistake.

Pet stores don't tell you what you need to know (unless they are very good pet stores), so you can't blame a lot of people for rushing into buying a lot of fish before they know what tanks they should have.

Krusty56 made a mistake, and people here bashed him over the head for that mistake. Awesome! Now he won't care and now he won't listen to anyone, let alone educate others on fish keeping.

When I first came into the hobby all I saw were awesome looking fish and I had a fish tank. My LFS didn't tell me "That fish needs more space, or that fish can't be kept with that fish". I even told them I only had a 29 gallon tank that was set up without being cycled. Did that stop them from selling me 2 Clown Loaches that needs a 55 gallon tank minimal and was a scaleless fish that wouldn't survive a tank cycle? Nope, they sold me the fish and sent me out the door.

Now I know better, I made the mistake and I won't let others make the same mistake. A lot of people make mistakes and it's one thing to correct their mistake. It's another to bash them over the head with it.

Also he returned the fish, Awesome!! He couldn't take care of it so he returned it. So what happens to that fish? That fish has about a 50/50 chance of an experienced hobbyist buying him. More in likely the poor fish will be sold to another person that has no clue on how to keep fish and the whole thing starts over.

Krusty56 now knows the importance of research and knowing what fish to buy for the tank he has. I say that is a WIN if he will help to educate others in the future. One more person that is educated will help many more that are not educated. We should embrace people and their mistakes and educate. The more we educate the more people will become responsible fish owners.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by baron1282 View Post
I never said it was ok! I said we all make mistakes.

To call someone out on a mistake and than act like you are somehow better than that person is just wrong.

I made the mistake, and I tried to upgrade. It killed my fish and I learned my lesson. Now I do research and tell everyone I can the importance of research.

Just because I said Craigslist is a good place to get a tank, does not mean you shouldn't make a wise choice in the tank you buy. Many threads already exist on how to make sure the tank you buy is a good tank.

Fish are just like any other animal and I agree 100%!! I just didn't know about tank sizes and fish requirements when I first started out. Just like 90% of people that start in this hobby. I choose not to call someone out and make them feel like they are the scum of the earth. I choose to educate in hopes that one day they will educate others to not make the same mistake.

Pet stores don't tell you what you need to know (unless they are very good pet stores), so you can't blame a lot of people for rushing into buying a lot of fish before they know what tanks they should have.

Krusty56 made a mistake, and people here bashed him over the head for that mistake. Awesome! Now he won't care and now he won't listen to anyone, let alone educate others on fish keeping.

When I first came into the hobby all I saw were awesome looking fish and I had a fish tank. My LFS didn't tell me "That fish needs more space, or that fish can't be kept with that fish". I even told them I only had a 29 gallon tank that was set up without being cycled. Did that stop them from selling me 2 Clown Loaches that needs a 55 gallon tank minimal and was a scaleless fish that wouldn't survive a tank cycle? Nope, they sold me the fish and sent me out the door.

Now I know better, I made the mistake and I won't let others make the same mistake. A lot of people make mistakes and it's one thing to correct their mistake. It's another to bash them over the head with it.
My very first post here was people telling me to take fish back, get a bigger aquarium, this fish does not go with this fish etc. I took no offense too it. He is taking offense to others telling him that he made a mistake, he made a mistake, that is fine, but he should own up to it, not be an smart-*** and rude about the peoples advice. I was not rude, I figured well these people know better than me, so I will do the research and return those fish. I did, and I can say that my tank is now a happier looking tank, and I am sure those fish I returned are now also happier. And I am 100% sure there are people on here that know better, hence why I (and he) joined this forum. To learn from others that DO KNOW BETTER. I am thankful those people told me to take some fish back, get a bigger tank and do better research.

Most LFS stores like Petco and PetSmart do not know the first thing about fish. Mine here cannot even identify a fish without the label, all their answers are "uh, well uh, let me ask my associate, uh let me call the manager". They are a business that is it in for the money, they dont care if the fish dies, as long as you pay for it and leave. The LFS I go to now is a dedicated fish store, they are spot on with every answer, never an "uh" or an "let me ask my manager", I ask a question boom I get a detailed and direct no BS answer. They also ask about your tank before you walk in and purchase fish, they ask what type of substrate, what size aquarium, is it cycled, how often I do water changes etc.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:09 PM   #104
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I agree echodremz.

Yet unfortunately some of the members did indeed insult him. He was only rude after the fact. To come to a place excited about the new fish you got, only to be told you were WRONG for getting that fish can be a shock. Understanding that and telling a person the correct way without being rude or insulting is a BIG step in converting people over.

He returned the fish to the LFS, that is great! He got the information and did the right thing.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:32 PM   #105
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I agree echodremz.

Yet unfortunately some of the members did indeed insult him. He was only rude after the fact. To come to a place excited about the new fish you got, only to be told you were WRONG for getting that fish can be a shock. Understanding that and telling a person the correct way without being rude or insulting is a BIG step in converting people over.

He returned the fish to the LFS, that is great! He got the information and did the right thing.
Well... He was wrong, he doesn't like it, well... darn. I've been part of this thread since it was posted, I didn't see or read anyone being rude... I see people being straight with him and saying he needs to return it, which is the correct and right answer, regardless if he feels it is not. His arrogant comments about Hamsters and Zoo's to me shows how little he cares and how little he knows and how little he wants to know about his fish and taking care of them.

I understand he has a situation where he cannot properly take care of the fish - that is fine, stuff happens , but in that case the fish should have been taken back or given a proper home, not tortured until he can properly take care of the fish.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:54 PM   #106
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Oh, so it is OK to stick a fish that requires a 50+ gallon tank into a 10 gallon tank? Knowing that you are not going to be able to accommodate him because of "other" issues? The fish is already stressed enough from the being caught, shoved in a tiny bag, then take for a car ride, then put into a tiny little tank that is WELL below their requirements...
That's a little dramatic IMO. No, a 2" fish in a 10g is not overstocking the tank. Even if that fish does easily outgrow the tank, the current stocking is not hurting it. You don't have to put a 2" oscar in a 75 gallon tank immediately, and honestly it makes little sense to do so if you have the means to move them from tank to tank as they grow.

I completely agree with you that someone should not get a fish that they cannot adequately accommodate, although there are many who do just this and then rehome the fish as they get too large or unruly. Seems like more of a trend in SW than in FW.

Quote:
Craigslist is great, but not always, you get a tank, say you pay $50 for it, then 2 days later it starts leaking, well you are SOL most of the time. If you pay for it from a retail establishment, you have a chance to drain it and return it. I would rather pay $1 per gallon and know that the tank is backed by the LFS for at least 30 days, and then I have receipts etc. to show to the manufacturer if something does break. To each is their own
Agreed, to each their own. I have over 50 tanks and around 47 of them came from CL or the classifieds. The cost savings is definitely worth it if you have the capacity to know what a good deal is and inspect the tank properly. With tanks it's pretty cut and dried since a visual inspection can give you a good idea whether a tank is in decent shape or needs resealed. Other equipment is a different story.

I even did a writeup on it here for anyone interested.

Cheap Tank Buying Guide - Aquarium Advice

Buying used does have it's downsides, but it's a great way to get in the hobby without making a big investment by paying retail prices.

Quote:
I do not agree that it is OK to run out and get fish and cram them into whatever size tank you have. He did the right thing by returning it (assuming he did). I am no fish expert, which is why I joined this community, I inherited a 30gallon tank from a friend that was FULL OF FISH. It was way overstocked, I did the right thing and returned some of the bigger ones and bought a new 55 gallon tank, moved some to the 55 gallon, and kept some in the 30 gallon.
I agree with this, people should research before they buy. Many don't unfortunately, but live and learn I guess.

Quote:
Fish are just like any other animal / pet. If you want a dog, you need to make sure you can support it and provide it with what it needs. Not just get it and feed it cat food for a month until you can afford to get dog food, or keep it in a tiny little room until you can afford to get it a bigger one.

It is one thing to buy a fish that "will" outgrow its tank, it is another to buy a fish that has already outgrown the tank. I have a Bala in a 55 gallon tank, I know he will outgrow it in a few years, and by then I will have a much larger tank (or 2), but for now, it fits him well.
I agree that fish need to be cared for like any other pet but putting them on the same level as dogs or cats is highly inaccurate in my opinion.

A few examples: We feed our fish a daily staple diet comprised of...other fish. Try doing that with a dog or cat.

It might be a little disconcerting, but fish often eat other fish (as do we), it's totally acceptable in the hobby for fish to be used as feeders, and most of us have seen a livebearer tank have a free for all shortly after some babies are born. Again, this is not something that we'd allow with dogs or cats.


There's such a big grey area filled with varied opinion on what is best for the fish we keep, so it makes it quite hard to keep it black and white. When the fishes health is being compromised due to lack of tank space or inadequate care, it is a problem, but we all sometimes disagree on when that line is crossed.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:19 PM   #107
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Fully agree!! You have a life threatning issue you should not have obtained the fish and by doing so you threatened his life. The moment I can not provide proper care for mine, they will be handed over to someone that can.
All is well she took the bala back.
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