New Family Member, Lots More Pics 8/27/07

[Lonewolfblue]

Well, I have some possibly good news. I finally found a trainer here locally that is willing to work with her. She said that it would only take 3-4 weeks to correct her behaviour. And the class is only once a week, then the rest of the week, I'll have homework to work with her on. She's also got 2 dogs of her own that she uses to train dogs like Betty. A Sheltie and a Border Collie. It's kind of expensive, but I think it's going to be well worth it.

Also, along with this training, she's also going to get training with hand commands as well. Betty knows many commands to start with, but it's going to expand her horizons with hand commands. She told me when we are done, she won't need to be on a leash as well, and not have to worry about her charging other dogs. And the most important part, it's not fixing her but training me, so that I'm the one in complete charge, and that I know what is expected of me on my end. It's gonna be a good experience.

[Lonewolfblue]

She did pretty well for the first day. Because she seems to have had some obedience training in the past, we were able to go directly to having another dog around on the first day. They usually don't do that, but because they felt her training was further along than expected, it's a good thing.

She still tries to go after the other dogs, but it's not aggression they say. They showed me her posture when she did it, and they tell me it's due to fear. Even with another dog at a distance, she still has the fear. So that is what we are working on. She said it's pretty easy to correct the problem, just takes some time. I thought it was going to be expensive at 30.00/hr, what I didn't realize is that the class is only 1 hour long. And she said even if we are there longer, it's still just 1 hour. Next Monday is our next class, and I have a few things to work on with her over the week.

After we work on this problem, and start getting things under control, I'm going to see what is needed in maybe getting her in on some agility training for competition. The gal seemed to think Betty's a good candidate for possible future competition. She said she can start on some training in the near future, but as for the jumping, doesn't recommend it until she's 1.5-2 yrs old. She said she's still too young to jump train, as her joints are not fully developed yet, and if started too early, she will have arthritis problems much sooner than most dogs. But the running and obsticle coarse are ok, as they don't have any jumping, just tube running, running around cones, etc.

The other option we have is when we get her comfortable with other dogs, can start the advanced obedience and competition obedience. Not sure what direction to take, any ideas?

As for the trainer, she's been doing this for well over 30 years, and holds several championships, and also has 2 new dogs she uses for training, and one already holds one Obedience Title. That's the Sheltie. Her border collie is a bit younger, but she hopes to start the competition training in the near future. But both dogs are excellent training dogs. They do very well with other dogs, and are awsome. I had a blast at todays class.

[plecoperson]

Good for you in making every effort to help this dog. The combination of being aggressive with other dogs and of biting humans is a very difficult one.

Sometimes these dogs get very lucky and find just the right home, where their needs are met and they are also are kept away from other dogs, kids, and people they might bite. This is very, very rare, however.

The bottom line is that she might get more manageable with training and socialization, but you will never be able to trust her. If you do end up returning her to the shelter, be completely frank about her issues, and about the bite. It sounds horrible, but if you are not able to make a go of it, it's highly unlikely that anyone else will either. The best option, for potential future adopters and for Betty, will be to euthanize her.

It's so hard to contemplate, but the worst thing for any dog is to go from home to shelter to home until there's an accident so serious that she ends up at that point anyway. You are giving her the best possible chance of a good outcome, and I think doing an excellent job of making every effort possible.

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by plecoperson

Good for you in making every effort to help this dog. The combination of being aggressive with other dogs and of biting humans is a very difficult one.

Sometimes these dogs get very lucky and find just the right home, where their needs are met and they are also are kept away from other dogs, kids, and people they might bite. This is very, very rare, however.

The bottom line is that she might get more manageable with training and socialization, but you will never be able to trust her. If you do end up returning her to the shelter, be completely frank about her issues, and about the bite. It sounds horrible, but if you are not able to make a go of it, it's highly unlikely that anyone else will either. The best option, for potential future adopters and for Betty, will be to euthanize her.

It's so hard to contemplate, but the worst thing for any dog is to go from home to shelter to home until there's an accident so serious that she ends up at that point anyway. You are giving her the best possible chance of a good outcome, and I think doing an excellent job of making every effort possible.

Well, as for the biting, she also explained to me the reason I got bit, so it's not really a problem of her biting humans. She told me that her so-called aggression is due to fear. Then when you put her on a leash, that fear is increased because her amount of room to escape is greatly diminished. Then, when you start getting closer to her collar, it just increases that fear substantially, because then there's no room to escape. And that is why she turned and bit. She said if I would have just pulled her back without getting closer to the collar, she wouldn't have turned on me like she did.

Also, she did say that some dogs with aggression problems are like you say, you will never be able to trust. But after the first class, she said that she has full confidence that Betty is not aggressive to people. She also said that until she becomes more comfortable with other dogs, if a dog is getting close, don't get close to her collar and allow her the room to circle around me rather than cut off her chance of escape by pulling her in closer to her collar so she can't circle around me. That is why I got bit. And I did notice that when I passed other dogs. As long as she had the room to go around me, she would keep charging at the dog, but never at me. And then just pull her away from the other dog and walk the opposite direction, not shortening the leash length.

But anyways, after our talks and the class, I am confident that I can trust her not biting another person. She loves people, and especially kids. And even in rough play, which I do with her sometimes to burn off energy, she bites my arms, but it's never hard. She just basically puts her mouth around my arm and doesn't bite down. She's very well mannered with people, as long as you don't bring anything that might make her fearful, like another dog. At least until she becomes comfortable with other dogs, which the instructor feels it can be accomplished after meeting her, I just need to not "reel her in" when another dog comes near. Just simply pull her away and walk the opposite direction, when not in training of course. When I'm in training mode with treats, then she wants me to constantly tell her to sit when she tries to charge, and when she does, give her a treat. That way, the dog will eventually understand that when another dog comes near, good things will happen if she sits or doesn't bark or charge. I'm supposed to do that with her a couple times a day, that is my homework assignment til next Monday.

Edit:
If things go well, I may start another training when she's a year and a half or 2 yrs old. It's K9 Flyball. But the trainer doesn't recommend it because of the jumping til at least a year and a half due to the leg joints not being fully developed til then. But check it out and let me know what you think.....

http://www.flyballdogs.com/onlinek9/...20flyball.html

This one is close to me, it's over in the Seattle area....
http://www.green-bean.com/pugethounds/AboutFlyball.htm

And here's a video.....
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=1224264512

[LandGhoti]

I'm so glad the trainer thinks Betty has a shot at being trained. And many kudos to you for hanging in there. I know a lot of people wouldn't bother.

(FYI, the link to the myspace video is not flyball. It's a guy in a trucker hat sucking on a corncob pipe, and then other stuff after that.)

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by LandGhoti

I'm so glad the trainer thinks Betty has a shot at being trained. And many kudos to you for hanging in there. I know a lot of people wouldn't bother.

(FYI, the link to the myspace video is not flyball. It's a guy in a trucker hat sucking on a corncob pipe, and then other stuff after that.)

The video is flyball, went to it again, and the link works fine for me. It's called: First NW U-Fli flyball event!

[plecoperson]

The thoughts I'm expressing here are of course my own, and based on years of doing rescue and following the course of hundreds of dogs from the time they came into the program until either a happy adoption course or a less fortuate outcome.

I think the trainer is right, and that she bites out of fear, but that response means that you will never be able to trust her in situations where she might get herself into trouble. The methods your trainer is recommending are ideal, but even with the very best training and the hard work you are doing, if the circumstances are right she will definitely bite again. For her sake and yours, you have to be extremely vigilant for the remainder of the time she is in your care.

I should also add that my own dog is a biter, though a 9-lb one (which helps!) Even this tiny dog has remarkable bite strength, though, and can easily break skin or take a small chunk out of someone's hand or face.

My husband and I know what his triggers are, we have no children, and we are very, very careful when out in public. He has improved markedly since we got him 6 years ago, but we know it's a lifetime of not letting our guard down when he is with us.

I think Betty would absolutely love flyball, and I hope she does get to the point where she can be around all those other dogs and people and still be kept safe from her own impulses and fears.

I wish you the very best with Betty. She is such a lovely dog, and her spirit shows through in the pictures. I really commend you for giving her your all. Not too many give a new dog the time and energy required to ensure they get the best chance possible for a happy life.

[LandGhoti]

Hmmm, I clicked on it again and it was flyball! No idea how I saw that first one, but it was really bizarre!

[LandGhoti]

Hmmm, I clicked on it again and it was flyball! No idea how I saw that first one, but it was really bizarre!

[Lonewolfblue]

Class #2 was good. She's learning alot, but still is quite fearful of other dogs. The trainer said it's going to take a little while, but she will get over it. I hope so.Told her if possible, I'd like to get a 2nd dog. Wanted to see what her reaction was. She said there'll be absolutely no problems with getting another dog. I thought I'd get a lecture that I shouldn't, lol. When she asked, I told her I was looking at getting an Australian Shephard if I did get another dog, and have 2 dogs that could possibly be competition dogs. She said it's doable.

Here's more pics....