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Old 03-10-2014, 09:07 PM   #91
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Could be brain damage influence or excruciating pain response?

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Originally Posted by Delapool View Post
Sorry I meant nitrite the first time. The book was written in 2002 and says nitrite is a skin irritant.

And ammonia can be made less harmful using salt (sodium chloride). No dose rate given.

Both seem a little odd.

Edit - these don't match what I've read/seen. I also did a search back on twitching fish and didn't see high nitrite levels mentioned.

Planning another search tonight. It seems confusing - fish can die from it but I can't find any examples in the unhealthy fish section so far.
http://www.agriculturejournals.cz/publicFiles/61325.pdf
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:06 PM   #92
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Quote:
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Many thanks - looks like gasping was the only thing noted (p464) plus a whole bunch of internal problems such as the brown blood.

The book didn't mention concentration levels where it would become an issue. Hmmmm, it did have some pictures of issues - I'll see if I can post tonight.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:11 PM   #93
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Quote:
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Many thanks - looks like gasping was the only thing noted (p464) plus a whole bunch of internal problems such as the brown blood.

The book didn't mention concentration levels where it would become an issue. Hmmmm, it did have some pictures of issues - I'll see if I can post tonight.
There are a billion links in this thread now! The first one by the op is good, it's in the bank already my end.

I haven't yet read through the entire erm? Nitrite Catalogue! Many more hours will be consumed by this!

If the book is for beginners they cover such a broad spectrum in such a little space many things seem to only be briefly covered so as to give you an idea.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:24 PM   #94
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It is fairly short but specific though on those points. I only looked at the authors briefly but there was decades of experience for each one.

But yes, it was short on at what level it is an issue and a few other bits that would be handy. Most info from the book is on koi types and building ponds you could boat on.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:17 AM   #95
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J McPeak to answer your question on a previous page - I'm quite new to fishkeeping. My primary and largest tank is only 4 months stocked. I prepared for a year before that. I post a ton but if you inspect my posts you'll find I stick to a very narrow range of helping others in order to make sure I'm within the parameters of my knowledge. I try to avoid stocking threads unless I am quite certain I have valuable input, because I don't have a big internal encylopedia of fish profiles. I know nothing about diseases, breeding, plants, so these are not threads I chime in on. Mostly I just help with nitrogen cycling and water chemistry issues because these are the things I know a lot about. When I want to expand my knowledge I pick a specific topic to research in depth and add to my arsenal. I prefer to work in specifics rather than generalities - to put it more succinctly, I would rather be excellent at some things than average at all things.
I have significantly more book experience than "field" experience. Obviously.

I've had some tough times but since I've adopted a more scientific approach to the hobby I've tried to view these more as learning experiences (columnaris, poisoning my fish with an external object, fiddling too much with my water chemistry).
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:23 AM   #96
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J McPeak I love your fish house!!!
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:23 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delapool View Post
Sorry I meant nitrite the first time. The book was written in 2002 and says nitrite is a skin irritant.

And ammonia can be made less harmful using salt (sodium chloride). No dose rate given.
Methinks the book people did poor research... wouldn't we have seen something about either of those by now??
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:22 AM   #98
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Name of the koi book and authors? Perhaps it was posted but it seems I missed it being that it's now 3am and I really should be asleep. Is one of them by chance Dr. Erik Johnson, DVM?
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:46 AM   #99
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Quote:
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I would rather be excellent at some things than average at all things.

I have significantly more book experience than "field" experience. Obviously.

I've had some tough times but since I've adopted a more scientific approach to the hobby
P1, precisely, learn something, move on, repeat. (Sometimes it is good to enter the fray erm, half cocked.) Most of my life I've tried to hang out with people who Excell versus me, that's how to learn, the brightest spark can give you some shine so to speak. Occasionally that leads to dispute here and there but that's only a brief thing, don't dwell on it move along get along get better. I've learnt some folks don't like being questioned! (Sometimes I break things with words, it's kind of like my super power!)
(That's why I consider myself stupid sometimes, one thing I've learnt, some people are very clever!) enough to make you want to quit type of clever, hopefully though they donate you/us/them some extra cells on a subject.

P2 I have more book experience than field work, welcome to Fishkeeping! If every tank owner could and did say that, for me the world would be a better place, some people lack the instinct to gain knowledge, what's happening, don't know, oh well. Move on. (Oh it's too hard) -isn't that life!

P3 I told you! (Or more accurately I expressed my feelings on the subject) science is serious! (That's kind of what I meant)

Most if not all people have start up issues, it's how they are addressed that makes the difference. Believe me, when I started I knew absolutely nothing.

What did I say, water is wet and you have two types, hot and cold. That was my start up knowledge base. The one question which changed everything forever. Fish live in water, what is water?

(Thank you for looking at my "work") it sure makes me happy (tired too)
It brings me joy when it brings others joy, it brings me joy everyday. Fish are the only constant in my life. A few people here know exactly what that means, it's all I have in the world at this point in time, so please keep loving it!
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:55 AM   #100
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Quote:
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And ammonia can be made less harmful using salt (sodium chloride). No dose rate.
Ammo lock trouble. High ammonia readings. help?!

Not sure if you were in this thread or not. Another catalogue, ammonia based this time.

I think that is a sweeping statement that cannot be applied realistically. In certain cases it won't cause any problems. Some situations though, you'll have a tank of dead fish. Dilution is the best thing (that's my opinion) it's the safest cure because one size fits all. Considering most ammonia issues are at start up time there are too many other factors that come into play that in my mind deem it unsafe as a general fixative. (Just add water, like how normal rivers are)
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