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Old 03-11-2014, 10:18 AM   #111
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No, no - I'm still keen on understanding more. It seems like it should be a problem yet isn't (or is very rare - you would think with all the fish in cycling that something would pop up more often).
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:26 AM   #112
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No, no - I'm still keen on understanding more. It seems like it should be a problem yet isn't (or is very rare - you would think with all the fish in cycling that something would pop up more often).

I felt like me and threnjen were on to something but I feel we are being steered off course. I find it strange that no one else has had an input yet.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:28 AM   #113
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But if you study fish and know that x fish can live in the same conditions as fish (MY STOCK AT THIS POINT IN TIME), what chap A has to say all of a sudden becomes very relevant very quickly. Loads of different fish share similar qualities, illness and water parameters simply put.



(Like we both agree, learn what you are doing to the best of your ability) I think for some people a tank is a fad or impulse decision while out at the garden centre or to please the kids etc. I inherited a tank from a guy who didn't realise the workload who got it for his kids, he couldn't be bothered so I swapped him a bottle of vodka for a 36x15x15 with stand/hood and a Fluval 205 plus some equipment. Two happy people emerged from that deal. (Vodka was a good quality grey goose @ £36 bottle) now to me that's a right bargain, the filter alone at sale price was £60 and a fortnight old, the system itself was 2years old, with an in tank Fluval 2+



My brother is a guitarist, he's been playing now for 20 odd years, he is GOOD!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891884@N04/8458185765/

My bros insane guitar collection. (The bass is missing, no studio can be seen neither can the xylophone? Or the keyboards)



Check this out! He is a proper musician, like I know fish and a few other things he knows music. (I do own a semi acoustic ibanez, black with white marketry, mother of pearl or abalone inserts, it's very nice)

Good stuff! I have a tenth of your brothers experience! one thing I do know is that classical guitar is a whole new ball game. The introduction of the little finger wreaks havoc amongst even veteran electric players.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:46 AM   #114
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I wonder if rapid swimming / flashing may be possible at low nitrite levels, then lethargy as brown blood, then death?

http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer.com/wiki/Nitrite

'As with ammonia, signs of possible nitrite problems may appear in the fish population: panic, rapid swimming, rapid breathing, gill damage, colors fading. More advanced signs include diseased or dying fish and invertebrates, cloudy water, and bad odors emanating from the tank.'
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:28 PM   #115
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Love guitars, off topic but briefly. . .

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Good stuff! I have a tenth of your brothers experience! one thing I do know is that classical guitar is a whole new ball game. The introduction of the little finger wreaks havoc amongst even veteran electric players.
He will do two handed tapping while looking you in the eye, flight of the wounded bumblebee any good to you? At correct bpm, (it uses delay in the Extreme version but one pick out of place and it all falls apart)

He writes properly structured classical pieces? Rock and metal, ska. Experimental stuff that has no genre.

(He's played your ball game) (he will teach you music) I think he has four or five students at this time.

I will say though, John Williams is one of my favourite guitar players, you should check out Al de meola and paco de Luca. Steve vai and joe satriani. (That's probably a handful of the worlds best right there)
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:37 PM   #116
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I feel we are being steered off course.
In what way?
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:23 PM   #117
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'As with ammonia, signs of possible nitrite problems may appear in the fish population: panic, rapid swimming, rapid breathing, gill damage, colors fading. More advanced signs include diseased or dying fish and invertebrates, cloudy water, and bad odors emanating from the tank.'
Despite being a detailed list it feels weirdly non-specific. I have no idea if that makes sense.


From what I have read before, the primary physical result of nitrite poisoning would be lack of oxygen in the blood. I would think that at low levels this is causing oxygen deprivation to the body's organs and placing some strain on them. As the methoglobawhatever goes up, I imagine the organs would be experiencing severe deprivation. Like... if your brain doesn't get any flood flow and oxygen, you get brain damage. I imagine that by the time we see fish gasping at the surface, they are probably already suffering physiologically.
The question is, I guess, is there a full recovery to the body's organs after temporary minor oxygen deprivation?
Maybe to answer this question, we need to look beyond fish to generally understand the effects of oxygen deprivation.

I wonder if this is at all similar to, for example, people climbing mountains. You go up too fast, the altitude becomes a problem. Acclimation is the key word there. You stay at base camps and wait for your body to adjust to the change.

Not that I am suggesting nitrite acclimation - i am suggesting it is a reversible damage.

More research to do!

Caliban we're still on track
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:28 PM   #118
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It seems like nitrite basically causes fish Hypoxia, would you guys agree or disagree?

Hypoxia (medical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Effects of high altitude on humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:42 PM   #119
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Yes I would agree with this. Back on track
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:51 PM   #120
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Yes, seems to make sense. That's a good analogy.

I'll keep looking around on signs of it. Seems conflicting.
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