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Old 11-17-2004, 07:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Psyhampster
PETA= People Eating Tasty Animals. LOL


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Old 11-17-2004, 07:21 PM   #12
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I agree with u completly, fishfreak rection to a stimulus does not mean that there is emotion behind the reaction, m first thought was fragging corals as well, they react just as most animals would, but this does not = pain, anger, saddness, or terror

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Old 11-17-2004, 07:51 PM   #13
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I dunno, I can certainly tell when my dog is afraid, anxious, excited, happy, worried, and sad. He really does have different emotions. Like when he knows I'm leaving for college after a weekend at home, he sulks and pouts as if he is emotionally upset. So I think animals can have feelings, they may not be as complex, but then again, none of us speak dog or cat or horse, so we really don't know.
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Old 11-17-2004, 08:12 PM   #14
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rubysoho, Im not saying some creatures dont have some level of emotion but remember sulks and pouts are human descriptions of what we see. Not nessicarly what is going on in their head.

PETA's biggest logical flaw is their assumption that the ability to sense and react to changes in the environment = self awareness.
Plants must be self aware then aswell since they react to their enviorment. Plants will grow toward the light source reguarless of their orentation to light. Leaves will curl up at night for protection? Or maybe to collect/conserve mosture. Either way its a reaction to a stimulas.
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Old 11-17-2004, 08:24 PM   #15
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Quite honestly, I didn't read anything that outrageous in the website you linked.

Here is where I disagree with you the most:
Originally Posted by fishfreek
But do they feel pain? Do they feel terror? I dont think so. Pain and Terror are human emotions and should not be carried over to the animal kindom as a whole. Sure a fish will react when you 'hurt' it. Its a nerve reflex, nothing more.
Human emotions?! 8O
Have you ever had a dog? A bird? A snake?
If you kick a dog, it will hurt it, and you will know it, because it will make that unmistakeable sound "cain cain"... However, if a bird is hurt, it will huntch down, suck it up, and pretend everything is fine, because that is what they do in nature. No bird in pain wants to look injured because that is like yelling:"Hey, I am an easy prey."
Likewise, fish pain may not be as obvious as dog pain, but just because the fish doesn't yell at you to complain that doesn't necessarily means it doesn't hurt. It may be just like the bird, a natural instinct to hide it to avoid predation.

By all means, I don't intend to argue with you on this, just thought since I am already here, I might as well add my two cents to the discussion.

Note, however, that this doesn't mean I am against eating fish at all. They are delicious. I have nothing against someone who will fish to eat it.
I stopped the fish-and-release practices, as well as fishing just for fun.
Maybe it is just a budhist thing, but if I can go without hurting living creatures, so I will.
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Old 11-17-2004, 08:37 PM   #16
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I am a level seven Vegan. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Personally I do think fish feel pain in the same way that a cat or a dog feels pain. Pain is what keeps us from putting our hands in a fire. It's natures way of keeping us from killing ourselves.

That being said, I feel that it is our right as humans to eat whatever we want as long as :

A: Its not endangered.
B: It's not human.
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:16 PM   #17
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What's a level seven vegan?
I know there's several kinds of vegetarian diets that either include or exclude fish, eggs, and dairy products in addition to meat itself. But I always thought a vegan was a vegan - simply no animal-derived foods period.

Anyway, back on topic, I eat fish and I don't have any problem with people who catch and eat fish. Predation, whether by humans or bears, is part of nature's biochemical circle of life.
I don't have a problem with people who don't eat fish for any reason.
I just have a problem with groups like PETA that use questionable tactics to force their dietary preferences on others.
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:32 PM   #18
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PETA... People with too much timE on Their hAnds

Ok, not as good as the earlier one, but these people need to do something more constructive with their lives....like a job or something.
Its also irritating that the media gives so much attention to these morons.
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:44 PM   #19
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I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Ok this got me. I have to ask, plants cast a shadow don't they? I'm not making fun or anything I'm just trying to understand.

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Old 11-17-2004, 10:22 PM   #20
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I am a level seven Vegan. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.
That's a quote from the Simpsons...
I can understand some of PETA's frustrations. There's really no laws about humane treatment of fish. Even though they might not have the emotional responses that other household pets might have we are still responsible for their lives. I'm not taking their side at all but just bringing out some points that both sides can make. Whether or not anyone here wants to admit it, there are way more people out there that don't know what they're doing and a lot of fish are dying and suffering. That needs to stop somehow, but I don't agree with a lot I've heard from PETA. Personally I am a Vegan at heart, but I occasionally eat some fish and turkey... but I have no problem with people that eat meat. I'm not to fond of the idea of hunting for sport, but food is food. I think it's a good thing for people to be able to do some hunting and fishing to feed themselves and their families. Much cheaper and healthier(and WAY more humane) than the stuff that's bought at the supermarket.
Like someone else mentioned, other animals eat animals... that's nature. That's the way it's been, if not forever than since the fall, who knows... Personally I believe that people can live without eating animals, and be quite healthy, and I think it's noble of them... but...
I just have a problem with groups like PETA that use questionable tactics to force their dietary preferences on others.
Exactly... I have friends that have antlers and stuff on their wall... I'm not too fond of that but those "trophies" aren't why they hunted. They use every bit of the animal they can... I have no problem with them doing that.
Anyway, I've rambled, probably long enough for you to forget about any point I may be trying to make...
Well, I believe our job as humans is to care for all life on the planet... I think we do need more effort and possibly organizations to protect the health of such animals. I think pet stores need to be held to some sort of standards and perhaps consumers as well. Well, I guess I'm troubled... what do we do? PETA definitely isn't doing things right, but who's going to? Anyway
on a lighter note... only been on the net and dealing with fish for a few years. It took me a while to know what PETA was and I also didn't pick up right away what PITA stood for... perhaps they're the same thing

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