PETA and Fish ethics

[fishfreek]

PETA has really hit a sore nerve with me now. I just heard about this on Fox news on my way home and I am absolutly beside myself with this. Im sorry to any one out there whom is a PETA supporter but honestly these folks are going insane.

http://fishinghurts.com/feat/linda/

Please visit the above link. Not to support them but to be aware of the kind of propoganda they are spreading now.

First and formost I do belive fish have a higher mental ability than just to breath, breed, eat and deficate. There are many fish species that have shown remedial and somewhat advanced socal order and test have been shown to indicate fish do have memory ability or the ability to learn/be traned.

But do they feel pain? Do they feel terror? I dont think so. Pain and Terror are human emotions and should not be carried over to the animal kindom as a whole. Sure a fish will react when you 'hurt' it. Its a nerve reflex, nothing more.

Neal Cavoto was the host of the show interviewing this PETA rep. PETA mentioned that fishing was inhumane. Well first lets see what inhumane means. "Lacking pity or compassion." Do I pitty the fish when I catch it? Do I feel bad about the fish's family when its caught? Nope. Should I? If I did then how could I drive a car or even walk on the ground with out being concerned I would squash a bug with my windshild or my foot..

Anyway Neal asked if it was inhumane for a bear to catch a fish and eat it. The PETA rep said no because the bear is doing what it does naturally. And Neal tried to get across that we as humans have just as much a natural right to feed ourselves as the bear but good ol PETA would not hear a word of it. Fishing is crewl because we hook their lips. Well they must be thinking to themselves it would hurt me to have a hook pushed thru my lip so it must hurt the fish. But wait. Have they done biologial tests on fish to determin the number of nerve endings in the fish's lip region? I havent myself but I can tell you one thing. All the fish I caught as a kid never flinched when I pulled the hook out any more than they did with out a hook in their mouths. So whos to say the fish even is aware a hook is on their lip other than the fact they can no longer swim away.

I could go on for a very long time on this but I wont bore anyone any further.

 

[rubysoho]

so, is it inhumane with the bear's claws rip and tear apart the fish as it is still living? Or when wolves start feasting on a young elk calf when it is still alive enough to struggle and call for its mother? Sorry to be so graphic, but that argument has no weight to it. Most people who fish in streams, lakes, rivers, are planning on eating them. There are some people I've seen on the outdoors station that only fish for fun (and kill it in a not-so-humane way) and that is when I disagree with it. But fishing for the average person...bah....

 

[fishfreek]

Technicly yes if you go by the definition it is. Because im sure the bear or wolf have no pitty or compasion toward the fish. This is where the falicy of giving animals human emotions and trates is so evident.

 

[Billsgate]

Ugh......i hate it when these animal rights organisations start making points which don't lead you anywhere. Our animal rights group in Belgium actually sent an angry letter to a tv-show, because there was a goldfish (fantail ) in a very small bowl. How ridiculous. My mom works at the show and the fish is only put into that bowl for shoots. Apart from that it always sits in a big enough tank(at least 10 gal) by itself with filtration.

Don't we all love these animal groups.......i mean, at some level they may be right, but don't start whining about the little things.....like fishing is cruel.......they should instead stand up against bad methods of fishing like fishing with dynamite (i've seen people do it in poor countries on tv!) and so on.......they souldn't stand up to fishing in general......ridiculous.

Take on some serious matters people. :?

 

[Jchillin]

Taken to the extreme, humans shall not eat of living thing. That is a position that is wholely insane. Hunting just for the thrill of hunting...ok fine. But if you're going to feed yourself, you should be able to hunt. We are supposed to be "civilized" and not torture. I can agree with that but sometimes the extreme is further out there than necessary. IMO

 

[fishfreek]

they should instead stand up against bad methods of fishing like fishing with dynamite

Exactly. Or the use of cyanide by some fish collectors. Ill be composing an article on dynamite shortly. Putting the final touches on the cyanide one now.

 

[fishfreek]

What defines "living"? Plants are living since we classify them dead when they are...well for the lack of a better word dead. How do you define 'feeling pain"? A coral will retract its polyps and often shrink in size when being fragged. It will also produce a nice slime. Is this a sign the coral is in 'pain'? Do you have to have a brain to experence pain? Corals dont have brains yet they react to the stimulas of being cut.

See how redicilious this can get.

 

[QTOFFER]

I've always wondered why PETA assumes that plants don't feel pain or distress.

The PETA people seem to know all the answers, but are they aware that plants produce stress hormones in response to injuries? That plants can sense environmental changes and adapt to them? That plants go to great lengths (e.g. burls and galls) to protect sensitive tissues from foreign irritants?

Is pulling up a carrot from the earth (violently tearing its delicate root system apart in the process) more morally acceptable than landing a fish from a stream with a hook? Why? Because carrots are only plants? Hmmm.... :?

PETA's biggest logical flaw is their assumption that the ability to sense and react to changes in the environment = self awareness.

 

[Melody]

I wish I knew where I read this, its been a long time ago, but I can remember the concept of the article...
a scientist monitored two house plants while growing them side by side, the electrical impulses... or something like that, and sent in a different person on occasion to talk to the plants and touch them. , the "impulses" (or whatever he was measuring) would increase slightly. but when he went in they stayed the same. Then one day he sent in a person I think who had been in there before and they ripped apart one of the plants. The "impulses" from the surviving plant went off the charts... so.... my conclusion?? none.. but I thought it was interesting.

 

[Psyhampster]

PETA= People Eating Tasty Animals. LOL

 

[Melody]

PETA= People Eating Tasty Animals. LOL

 

[xxmoorishmanxx]

I agree with u completly, fishfreak rection to a stimulus does not mean that there is emotion behind the reaction, m first thought was fragging corals as well, they react just as most animals would, but this does not = pain, anger, saddness, or terror

 

[rubysoho]

I dunno, I can certainly tell when my dog is afraid, anxious, excited, happy, worried, and sad. He really does have different emotions. Like when he knows I'm leaving for college after a weekend at home, he sulks and pouts as if he is emotionally upset. So I think animals can have feelings, they may not be as complex, but then again, none of us speak dog or cat or horse, so we really don't know.

 

[fishfreek]

rubysoho, Im not saying some creatures dont have some level of emotion but remember sulks and pouts are human descriptions of what we see. Not nessicarly what is going on in their head.

PETA's biggest logical flaw is their assumption that the ability to sense and react to changes in the environment = self awareness.

Plants must be self aware then aswell since they react to their enviorment. Plants will grow toward the light source reguarless of their orentation to light. Leaves will curl up at night for protection? Or maybe to collect/conserve mosture. Either way its a reaction to a stimulas.

 

[Bioworldmaker]

Fishfreek,

Quite honestly, I didn't read anything that outrageous in the website you linked.

Here is where I disagree with you the most:

But do they feel pain? Do they feel terror? I dont think so. Pain and Terror are human emotions and should not be carried over to the animal kindom as a whole. Sure a fish will react when you 'hurt' it. Its a nerve reflex, nothing more.

Human emotions?! 8O
Have you ever had a dog? A bird? A snake?
If you kick a dog, it will hurt it, and you will know it, because it will make that unmistakeable sound "cain cain"... However, if a bird is hurt, it will huntch down, suck it up, and pretend everything is fine, because that is what they do in nature. No bird in pain wants to look injured because that is like yelling:"Hey, I am an easy prey."
Likewise, fish pain may not be as obvious as dog pain, but just because the fish doesn't yell at you to complain that doesn't necessarily means it doesn't hurt. It may be just like the bird, a natural instinct to hide it to avoid predation.

By all means, I don't intend to argue with you on this, just thought since I am already here, I might as well add my two cents to the discussion.

Note, however, that this doesn't mean I am against eating fish at all. They are delicious. I have nothing against someone who will fish to eat it.
I stopped the fish-and-release practices, as well as fishing just for fun.
Maybe it is just a budhist thing, but if I can go without hurting living creatures, so I will.

 

[RocketSeason]

I am a level seven Vegan. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Personally I do think fish feel pain in the same way that a cat or a dog feels pain. Pain is what keeps us from putting our hands in a fire. It's natures way of keeping us from killing ourselves.

That being said, I feel that it is our right as humans to eat whatever we want as long as :

A: Its not endangered.
B: It's not human.

 

[QTOFFER]

What's a level seven vegan?
I know there's several kinds of vegetarian diets that either include or exclude fish, eggs, and dairy products in addition to meat itself. But I always thought a vegan was a vegan - simply no animal-derived foods period.

Anyway, back on topic, I eat fish and I don't have any problem with people who catch and eat fish. Predation, whether by humans or bears, is part of nature's biochemical circle of life.
I don't have a problem with people who don't eat fish for any reason.
I just have a problem with groups like PETA that use questionable tactics to force their dietary preferences on others.

 

[quarryshark]

PETA... People with too much timE on Their hAnds

Ok, not as good as the earlier one, but these people need to do something more constructive with their lives....like a job or something.
Its also irritating that the media gives so much attention to these morons.

 

[dralarms]

I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Ok this got me. I have to ask, plants cast a shadow don't they? I'm not making fun or anything I'm just trying to understand.

 

[millipede]

I am a level seven Vegan. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

That's a quote from the Simpsons...
I can understand some of PETA's frustrations. There's really no laws about humane treatment of fish. Even though they might not have the emotional responses that other household pets might have we are still responsible for their lives. I'm not taking their side at all but just bringing out some points that both sides can make. Whether or not anyone here wants to admit it, there are way more people out there that don't know what they're doing and a lot of fish are dying and suffering. That needs to stop somehow, but I don't agree with a lot I've heard from PETA. Personally I am a Vegan at heart, but I occasionally eat some fish and turkey... but I have no problem with people that eat meat. I'm not to fond of the idea of hunting for sport, but food is food. I think it's a good thing for people to be able to do some hunting and fishing to feed themselves and their families. Much cheaper and healthier(and WAY more humane) than the stuff that's bought at the supermarket.
Like someone else mentioned, other animals eat animals... that's nature. That's the way it's been, if not forever than since the fall, who knows... Personally I believe that people can live without eating animals, and be quite healthy, and I think it's noble of them... but...

I just have a problem with groups like PETA that use questionable tactics to force their dietary preferences on others.

Exactly... I have friends that have antlers and stuff on their wall... I'm not too fond of that but those "trophies" aren't why they hunted. They use every bit of the animal they can... I have no problem with them doing that.
Anyway, I've rambled, probably long enough for you to forget about any point I may be trying to make...
Well, I believe our job as humans is to care for all life on the planet... I think we do need more effort and possibly organizations to protect the health of such animals. I think pet stores need to be held to some sort of standards and perhaps consumers as well. Well, I guess I'm troubled... what do we do? PETA definitely isn't doing things right, but who's going to? Anyway
on a lighter note... only been on the net and dealing with fish for a few years. It took me a while to know what PETA was and I also didn't pick up right away what PITA stood for... perhaps they're the same thing