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Old 12-28-2013, 06:00 AM   #101
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It is a theory, but I am not a scientist. Has anyone ever actually studied these bacteria properly hello scientists?
I saw an interview of Dr tims creator about his bottled bacteria. He basically stated that most bottled bacteria is the type that comes from waste treatment plants which is more suited to live in super high nutrient environments where ammonia and nitrite is off the charts rather than our low nutrient systems. This is apparently why a lot of people have issues using bottled bacteria.

It could also signal issues when hyper saturating your water with ammonia allowing the other kind to grow.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:16 AM   #102
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I saw an interview of Dr tims creator about his bottled bacteria. He basically stated that most bottled bacteria is the type that comes from waste treatment plants which is more suited to live in super high nutrient environments where ammonia and nitrite is off the charts rather than our low nutrient systems. This is apparently why a lot of people have issues using bottled bacteria.

It could also signal issues when hyper saturating your water with ammonia allowing the other kind to grow.


Yes I have heard about this too. I was taking about regularly aquarium bacteria though. How do we not know there characteristics inside out. Or is it just that we are not important to scientists lol
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:28 AM   #103
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But I challenge you - so what? What's the big deal if there are massive nitrites?
The forum where I learned fishless cycling doesn't make a big deal about off-the-chart ammonia OR nitrites the way this forum does. The ammonia in my bucket is currently about 20ppm and the cycle is moving.

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Wow that's amazing, highest I'd heard of is 10ppm. I'd be really interested if you have ph and kH readings for this?
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:11 PM   #104
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Today's test results:

pH 7.2
NitrItes still off the charts (this will be the case for a while now)
NitrAtes coming in! About 30ppm right now. Actually it's too bad I didn't check yesterday, I would have had a reading I bet

Delapool my water is ridiculously soft and my kH is 0, my main tank I have to add a lot of stuff to get a buffer.
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:36 PM   #105
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Wow that's amazing, highest I'd heard of is 10ppm.
I am quite determined to prove that we are overly concerned with specific numbers. But we shall see.
The problem is I can only prove anything for MY water conditions, know what I mean?

For the experiment to truly work, we need to round up interested parties with different source water types. Maybe I should make a new post about this.
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:48 PM   #106
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I am quite determined to prove that we are overly concerned with specific numbers. But we shall see.
The problem is I can only prove anything for MY water conditions, know what I mean?

For the experiment to truly work, we need to round up interested parties with different source water types. Maybe I should make a new post about this.
We can control all the variables though to create the same test? Except trace minerals etc.

I would love to start a a bucket but getting hold of pure ammonia is really tough.

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Old 12-28-2013, 05:55 PM   #107
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Hmm I guess I could simulate a harder water source, but the pH would go up as well.
Could be worse; if I had hard water I could never simulate soft water unless I bought some RO water.

Husband was NOT excited for me to go buy tanks at the petco sale, so I might be stuck using buckets. Remember I only have 2 identical filters, so we will need to decide by then the exact conditions I want to create. i.e. do we want to have different source water but same dosing conditions, or same source water but different dosing conditions (as we had discussed earlier)
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #108
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Hmm I guess I could simulate a harder water source, but the pH would go up as well.
Could be worse; if I had hard water I could never simulate soft water unless I bought some RO water.

Husband was NOT excited for me to go buy tanks at the petco sale, so I might be stuck using buckets. Remember I only have 2 identical filters, so we will need to decide by then the exact conditions I want to create. i.e. do we want to have different source water but same dosing conditions, or same source water but different dosing conditions (as we had discussed earlier)
We want to increase pH to the optimum level as discribed in that link no? I guess you would have to play around with amount of crushed coral or limestone to achieve the required level. How hard is your water? If it has a relativly good buffering capacity then there would be no need to mess with it. Once ph is attained it would have to be maintained which would be difficult. Then it would have to be slightly reduced as the second bacteria starts to colonise. Temps would have to remain constant throughout at the optimum temp as described in the link. I would personally concerntrate on one test at a time and record results ie how long it has taken to bring 4ppm from 4ppm 0ppm in 24 hours and having 0 nitrites and a a reading of nitrates.

I read another interesting article today that claimed nitrospira strain goes dormant in high volumes of ammonia. Ill see if I can find the link.

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Old 12-28-2013, 06:49 PM   #109
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How hard is your water? If it has a relativly good buffering capacity then there would be no need to mess with it.
Softest water possible practically. As per our own water quality website "surface water of [my region] is some of the softest in the [US]" "1/3-1/2 grains of hardness per gallon" I don't know what ppm that means, but I imagine almost nothing.
As a result I have no kH and no buffering capacity. I have to add stuff in my main tank to retain consistency.

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I read another interesting article today that claimed nitrospira strain goes dormant in high volumes of ammonia. Ill see if I can find the link.
YES link please!! This is just the sort of stuff I want to see!
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:53 PM   #110
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I need access to these articles somehow
A targeted study on possible free ammonia inhibition of Nitrospira - ResearchGate

My husband has been a part of published papers so I will have to see if he qualifies to access this site

Abstract from that paper:
"Batch tests were carried out with Nitrospira in mixed and pure cultures using concentrations of free ammonia widely believed to be inhibitory to nitrite-oxidizing organisms. The mixed culture batch tests were conducted with mixed liquor from a bench scale completely stirred tank reactor (CSTR) treating a synthetic wastewater having a low C:N ratio. Nitrospira were confirmed as the dominant nitrite oxidizers via RNA slot blotting. Nitrospira moscoviensis were used for the pure culture trials. The results from this study suggest that free ammonia (NH3-N) concentrations of up to 10 mg/L were not inhibitory to Nitrospira either in situ or in pure culture. Key words: fatty acid methyl esters, free ammonia inhibition, molecular methods, nitrification, nitrite, Nitrobacter, Nitrospira, nitrous acid, nitrous oxide, RNA slot blotting, wastewater treatment."
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