Post your test data

[Caliban07]

This is one of the more in-depth articles I have found about the specific bacteria used in the nitrifying process
Nitrifying Bacteria Facts
Ultimately that site is to hawk their bacterial additive, but the info is great

This is one of my faves too

 

[Caliban07]

I wonder if baking soda should be a part of the fishless cycling plan, to keep pH really high, because growth is improved with that (and a pH crash can really mess people up)

But then, that's just another thing to make cycling confusing.

Good idea, but does add another confusing element. Which brings me to my original question. Why not just fish in cycle

 

[sixtyfou]

"What do you hear Starbuck"

"Nothing, but the rain Sir"

"Get your gun, and bring in the cat."

 

[threnjen]

I wish there was a like button on this forum so I could just thumb up something.

Anyway-
Since I'm all riled up and crazy style about this experiment, and I was making an Amazon order anyway (not that it matters, I have Prime so can order whatever anytime),
I ordered another crappy Aqueon filter to match the one that came with my 10g hospital kit, and another heater, so that I can set up two identical buckets side by side with the same filter and same filter media and perform the experiment.

This of course will need to wait until after the current bucket is fully cycled as I need that media for the better filter I have on the way for the 10g

.... are you following all of this? lol...

 

[Caliban07]

I wonder if baking soda should be a part of the fishless cycling plan, to keep pH really high, because growth is improved with that (and a pH crash can really mess people up)

But then, that's just another thing to make cycling confusing.

Also I think you would need to add crushed coral to raise ph. Baking soda raises the carbonate hardness Kh of water, the waters buffering capacity (the ability to neutralise acids) also referred to as alkalinity. The higher the kh the more acid you would need to alter the ph as the kh is 'absorbing' the acids.

Crushed coral raises the ph directly from acid to alkaline. Alkaline and alkalinity are not to be confused though.

 

[Caliban07]

I wish there was a like button on this forum so I could just thumb up something.

Anyway-
Since I'm all riled up and crazy style about this experiment, and I was making an Amazon order anyway (not that it matters, I have Prime so can order whatever anytime),
I ordered another crappy Aqueon filter to match the one that came with my 10g hospital kit, and another heater, so that I can set up two identical buckets side by side with the same filter and same filter media and perform the experiment.

This of course will need to wait until after the current bucket is fully cycled as I need that media for the better filter I have on the way for the 10g

.... are you following all of this? lol...

Lol yes. I eagerly await the results of these tests

 

[threnjen]

Also I think you would need to add crushed coral to raise ph. Baking soda raises the carbonate hardness Kh of water, the waters buffering capacity (the ability to neutralise acids) also referred to as alkalinity. The higher the kh the more acid you would need to alter the ph as the kh is 'absorbing' the acids.

Crushed coral raises the ph directly from acid to alkaline. Alkaline and alkalinity are not to be confused though.

I'm not sure that you require a buffer though because I don't think the bacteria care about pH swings the way fish do (although I can't say I have read documents confirming this either way)
The baking soda is just to keep the pH above 7.0 so the bacteria growth doesn't slow down, not to increase buffering capacity.

 

[threnjen]

Is there a test kit out there that will test over 5ppm ammonia or nitrite?

eh, probably, but I don't know that I love science enough to spend extra on those =|
It IS a little annoying though that some of my results are simply "off the charts". I would rather have a NUMBER there, especially in pursuit of SCIENCE!

 

[Caliban07]

I'm not sure that you require a buffer though because I don't think the bacteria care about pH swings the way fish do (although I can't say I have read documents confirming this either way)
The baking soda is just to keep the pH above 7.0 so the bacteria growth doesn't slow down, not to increase buffering capacity.

By adding the baking soda you are increasing buffering capacity. You are right this would help keep ph above 7.0 but in order to 'keep ph really high' as you stated you would need crushed coral or limestone.

 

[Caliban07]

Is there a test kit out there that will test over 5ppm ammonia or nitrite?

eh, probably, but I don't know that I love science enough to spend extra on those =|
It IS a little annoying though that some of my results are simply "off the charts". I would rather have a NUMBER there, especially in pursuit of SCIENCE!

Haha just put of the charts or unable to record.

 

[threnjen]

If one were very VERY type-A (like me!) we could also look at this:

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.8-8.0.​

The optimum pH range for Nitrobacter is between 7.3-7.5


And then tailor the pH for each step of the cycle...


Understand I am not suggesting that any layman take on something this complicated.
What I really want from all of this is easier instructions, not harder.

I think aiming for 7.5 is good though, and easily done with just baking soda.
​

 

[Caliban07]

A

Is there a test kit out there that will test over 5ppm ammonia or nitrite?

eh, probably, but I don't know that I love science enough to spend extra on those =|
It IS a little annoying though that some of my results are simply "off the charts". I would rather have a NUMBER there, especially in pursuit of SCIENCE!

Also I guess API weren't expecting anybody to have ammonia up at that level when the made the test. How much if your test kit are you using on this anyway lol

 

[threnjen]

I just ordered a new Master Test Kit with my amazon order.....
Good thing they are so cheap on Amazon


SCIENCE!

 

[Caliban07]

If one were very VERY type-A (like me!) we could also look at this:

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.8-8.0.​

The optimum pH range for Nitrobacter is between 7.3-7.5


And then tailor the pH for each step of the cycle...


Understand I am not suggesting that any layman take on something this complicated.
What I really want from all of this is easier instructions, not harder.

I think aiming for 7.5 is good though, and easily done with just baking soda.
​

Yes I'm completely with you on this. Could we not keep it at 7.6 as a compromise? That the exact ph of my tap water too!

Yes I'm saying we as I want me name on the Nobel piece prize for this experiment too

It's my bedtime now 11:24pm!

 

[Caliban07]

Sorry I didn't see that post 7.5 would be good

 

[threnjen]

I'll try for 7.6
I have at least a week before I can set this up, so we can agree on all parameters by then. So don't worry, you won't miss anything going to bed
Plus I'll still be up after you get up hehe

 

[threnjen]

Sounds like it's $1/gallon time at Petco!!!
I think I'll go pick up 2 5's for this project!! I hope they have them...

 

[Old Scales]

lol They have Nobel prizes for biology and chemistry too. The prize money would buy a lot of fish stuff.
If you have extra soft water like I have (4 dKH in summer, 2 dKH in winter) and you go to pressurized CO2, pH swings and buffering capacity becomes a fascinating new world. lol OS.

 

[Caliban07]

How many ml is 1ppm ammonia anyway? How are we on the original bucket?

 

[threnjen]

The bucket is really small, it was about 1.25ml to get to 4ppm. Now that you mention it, it's going to be tough to dose .25ppm ammonia!

NitrItes 14 hours ago were around 5. Yesterday they were 3ish, and day before only .5. I will do the next test in 10 hours. I'll check nitrAtes this time as well to see if any are starting to appear, but probably not yet.