Post your test data

[threnjen]

If you do fish in cycling right there is no reason ammonia should reach 0.25ppm.
.

How does the tank ever cycle if you don't get any ammonia readings?
I'm not arguing, I am simply curious how this could work.

 

[sixtyfou]

Ding, ding, ding!

We're on the same page. I have no experience with fishless cycling. I have to admit I don't trust it. I'd like to run some numbers. I think a lot of what is out there is anecdotal.

 

[threnjen]

To me fishless cycling is much more stressful to the hobbyist. The amount of posts on here relating to stalled cycles and posts about giving up because nitrites won't come down is frightening. Far more water changes if you do a fishless cycle wrong.

People are just impatient and/or confused re: the nitrites.
This is the only forum I am aware of that advocates water changes during a fishless cycle. I'm not convinced that the information about that is accurate and not simply a perpetuated myth. I don't know this for sure, though.

As an example. So I'm doing this fishless cycle on this bucket? It probably is at 20ppm ammonia right now. No joke. And my nitrites are going up, it is not stalled. I was taught the fishless cycle very differently and it doesn't hide from high ammonia or nitrite levels with water changes at all.

BUT my last cycle was "tainted" by the seed media from the LFS. It was a ways into it though, when I already had nitrites. So I CAN confirm that I got nitrites even with ridiculous ammonia levels. But as for nitrite->nitrate, my test results were tainted.

I think there is just a lot of misinformation.

 

[threnjen]

Ding, ding, ding!

We're on the same page. I have no experience with fishless cycling. I have to admit I don't trust it. I'd like to run some numbers. I think a lot of what is out there is anecdotal.

Another reason I am running the fishless cycle on the bucket is I want to show that water changes aren't important and that ammonia and nitrites can be CRAZY HIGH
I was taught to dose the 4pp, ammonia EVERY DAY until you see nitrites. Every day! My ammonia levels are crazy right now! Is the cycle stalled? Nope. People on this forum will freak out if ammonia is over 4ppm and tell me my cycle will stall. My nitrites say otherwise.


I'm a bit confused what you mean by "I don't trust it" though

 

[sixtyfou]

The fishless cycle seems to call for a level of chemistry I don't think most people can handle.

 

[threnjen]

I am cycling things this "other" way because I hope to share my results with the forum and see if I can change anyone's mind about the fishless cycle and how it "must" be done. Because this method is so different. But we'll see. I don't think it will happen. Not the cycle, the convincing and changing of minds.

 

[threnjen]

The fishless cycle seems to call for a level of chemistry I don't think most people can handle.

I think people around here just make it super complicated.
I'm glad I hit the other forum first and learned to cycle there or I bet I would be mad confused and still be uncycled.

 

[sixtyfou]

I'm excited about your objectivism. I'll do what I can to help.

 

[sixtyfou]

I got back into it with a cup of gravel from my LPS. I've never done it without seed.

 

[Mebbid]

I mean no offense or disrespect to anyone who prefers it, but I think deliberately doing a fish-in cycle sounds crazy. It's so much more work!"

Some people would much rather do the extra "work" than stare at an empty tank. Personally, I don't really consider water changes and testing to be work. It's just not a big deal.

 

[threnjen]

I don't know, I feel like my current fishless results are tainted already.
I posted my complaints on the different forum so I don't have the thread here, but I got nothing on my cycle after 12 days.
Then I moved my filter to a different bucket and totally started over with new water. After 5 days, nitrites.
Now I can never know - did it take me 17 days to get to nitrites, or was bucket #1 tainted?? To be fair, I actually think it's the latter. I don't think nitrites take that long to form. They usually form in 5-7 days.
Edit: Just remembered, I did also mess around with the filter media in the HOB. On the original bucket I think the flow was somewhat restricted and the biowheel was turning very slowly.

Nonetheless I feel like I need to do ANOTHER one somewhere. I'm out of places to fill with water and cycle, though... lol
I have extra filters and such, so if I find something else, I will do it

All in the name of science!!

 

[threnjen]

Some people would much rather do the extra "work" than stare at an empty tank. Personally, I don't really consider water changes and testing to be work. It's just not a big deal.

It's clearly a very personal and subjective topic.
Water changes every day are such a pain in my *** on this hospital tank and it's only a 10g.

 

[threnjen]

Some people would much rather do the extra "work" than stare at an empty tank. Personally, I don't really consider water changes and testing to be work. It's just not a big deal.

I feel like if I could scientifically demonstrate that you can fishless cycle in 2 weeks that more people might go fishless. 2 weeks isn't THAT long for patience!

 

[threnjen]

Maybe when this cycle is done, I will clean the bucket really well to make it bacteria-free, then stick in a new filter and do it again.

I wonder if there is a market out there for virgin clean (never in a tank with fish) cycled filter media?

 

[sixtyfou]

I don't know, I feel like my current fishless results are tainted already.
I posted my complaints on the different forum so I don't have the thread here, but I got nothing on my cycle after 12 days.
Then I moved my filter to a different bucket and totally started over with new water. After 5 days, nitrites.
Now I can never know - did it take me 17 days to get to nitrites, or was bucket #1 tainted?? To be fair, I actually think it's the latter. I don't think nitrites take that long to form. They usually form in 5-7 days.
Edit: Just remembered, I did also mess around with the filter media in the HOB. On the original bucket I think the flow was somewhat restricted and the biowheel was turning very slowly.

Nonetheless I feel like I need to do ANOTHER one somewhere. I'm out of places to fill with water and cycle, though... lol
I have extra filters and such, so if I find something else, I will do it

All in the name of science!!

RESPECT!!

I want to do some tests like this. It's so hard to control at home. We haven't even mentioned temp, or source water.

 

[Mebbid]

I feel like if I could scientifically demonstrate that you can fishless cycle in 2 weeks that more people might go fishless. 2 weeks isn't THAT long for patience!

2 weeks is how long my original cycle took but it can go from two weeks to two months. There are a lot of people that have tons of issues with fishless cycling.

 

[threnjen]

RESPECT!!

I want to do some tests like this. It's so hard to control at home. We haven't even mentioned temp, or source water.

I turn the temp up because bacteria like it and there's no fish. It's like 85 or 86 in there.

I think source water is actually really important to the time taken for the process. Like Mebbid is saying right above me, so many people have problems, so obviously one-size does not fit all (but is that user error or source water? or both?)

For example my water appears to be unusual, it is EXTREMELY soft, but somewhat alkaline. An unusual combination as usually soft and acidic go together, and hard and alkaline.
I'm actually prone to pH crash during my cycles so I have to watch my pH.

 

[sixtyfou]

I wonder if there is a market out there for virgin clean (never in a tank with fish) cycled filter media?

No, because a cup of gavel and a Danio is cheap and the LPS will give it to you.

 

[sixtyfou]

I'm lucky, I have great source water.

 

[threnjen]

Lucky you
Mine sucks, it has no nutrients or anything, and my kH is 0.