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Old 02-02-2005, 10:07 PM   #51
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I've been reading these posts and have a couple comments on the debate. Regarding McDonald's slaughtering practices: As I recall, KFC was being investigated by PETA for their practices of killing and raising chickens in horrid conditions. I have seen pictures of the actual slaughter houses and I wouldn't wish my worst enemy into a place like that.

I agree with what someone said earlier about seatbelts. The fact that the government made a law that said that I MUST wear my seat belt is absurd. It is MY life that I am risking. It's MY responsibility to take care of myself. It is now law that in the state of IL, police officers can pull you over just for not wearing your seatbelt. It's all just a ploy to pull you over and try to give you tickets for something else. The law used to be that they can't pull you over just because you weren't wearing it.

If McDonald's is going to be attacked for their bad foods, every restaurant can be attacked. You go to Long John Silvers and EVERYTHING in that place is fried with the exception to the veg's that are soaked in butter. Movie theatre's pack on the calories with their popcorn butter, candies, and sodas. Everything that we eat has a negative to it (except celery). Think about it, Watermelon is PACKED with sugars, avocados are stuffed full of calories and fat, potatoes are loaded with carbs. Like it has been said before, when I go to McDonald's they don't just hand me a Big Mac, Super Size fry, and Super Size Coke and send me on my way. I have the choice between a salad with fat free dressing and a diet coke, or splurging with the 1,000 calorie lunch. Parents have to teach children how to have responsibility.

It's just like the parents blaming video games for their kids being violent. COME ON! The parents have to BUY that game for their young children to play with. Alternatively they could buy them a baseball glove, bat, and ball and sign them up for Khoury League baseball.

I'll admit, I am not a perfect size 2, BUT, I know that the reason why I have those extra 15 lbs is because I decided to go out and eat that Happy Meal during my lunch break instead of opting for the salad. It's not McDonald's fault that I chose the nuggets, it's mine. It would be like blaming Anheuser Busch because my grandfather had liver disease. He's the one that drank the beer. I wish we could go back to a simpler time when everyone took responsibility for themselves for what they do instead of someone else.

I live about 100 miles from Madison County Illinois. I'm not sure if everyone is familiar with Madison County but it generates the biggest lawsuits in the country. Statistically more money comes out of lawsuits in Madison county than any other county in the country. About two years ago there was a lawsuit against Phillip Morris. A class action lawsuit was filed against Phillip Morris because the people didn't know that "Light" cigarettes didn't mean that they were better for you. They were all in their 50's and the suit was for a time period of 1997 and 2000 (I believe). They WON! That is so ridiculous! By 1997 there was plenty of warnings on cigarette boxes that warned against smoking. I do happen to smoke, but I know that if I die of lung cancer, it's my fault for starting in the first place. They didn't make me walk into the gas station and buy the cigs. They didn't sit there and light it for me and make me inhale. They didn't give me the money to purchase them.

And I am sick and tired of all of these smoking bans. It's not because I smoke, it's because it's another freedom that we lose. Yes I know that people have the right to breathe fresh air, BUT, if I own a bar and I pay for the bills, I should have the right to have smoking in the bar. If someone doesn't smoke and they don't want to be around people that do, they don't have to come in. People can always put up bars that are non-smoking. In restaurants there are smoking and non-smoking sections. The non-smokers can sit in the non-smoking section and the smokers can sit in the smoking section. If the place doesn't have a good enough barrier between the two, don't eat there, order carry out, go somewhere else.
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:18 AM   #52
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I really don't want to get banned, but I just can't help but speak my mind... all this talk about freedom. It's a joke. People use that argument basically to say what they're doing isn't wrong. It has nothing to do with losing a freedom. People just don't want to be responsible for themselves. They want to feel like they can do whatever they want and feel good about it. Smoking kills people(period). I know this might be extreme buy why not legalize crack. Hey it's my life, the government shouldn't tell me I can't do drugs... sounds stupid doesn't it? rights, freedoms... it's getting rediculous.
I can't even think anymore this is so frustrating.
So if I don't want to smell smoke ever or face the possability of lung cancer, I have to go out of my way to find all the places that it isn't allowed, in a society where it is allowed? That's just rediculous. Telling me if I want to live a healthy responsible life I need to avoid all contact with other humans basically... That is a tempting proposition though. I wish I had my own island somewhere... but come on...
killing yourslef and people around you is really acceptable? It has nothing to do with freedom and rights... ahhhh... just rediculous...
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:26 AM   #53
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i wouldnt say its so much a question of right and wrong as it is do u want someone else telling u how to live ur life. maybe u agree with banning big macs and or smoking but one day they may say u have to do something u dont want to like give up fish for whatever reason. Is it worth the risk to let someone else how to live your life. I understand thing like eating big macs all the time and smokeing are unhealthy and in exsess very wrong, so i choose not to do that that is my right and i wouldnt want to force my beliefes onto anyone else, because i wouldnt want their beliefes forced onto me.
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:41 AM   #54
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I can guaruntee that someday they will take away things I believe in. But when they take away something that is wrong, hey it needs to be done. Is it really ok to accept smoking and the horrible things it does just for the dilusion that the govenerment isn't controlling things? The fact that smoking is a legal habit is the governments decision anyway. They are the ones that are allowing it to go on. They're controlling it. There's no freedon in it at all... And this issue has nothing to do with beliefs. Smoking is bad. It's not a belief, it's a fact and everyone knows it. Anyone that disagrees is in serious denial. I do agree that most people aren't comfortable with someone telling them how to live their life. But that again brings us back to responsability. These days everyone wants to think everything they do is ok and acceptable. That's just not the case. There are things that are wrong and someone has to stand up for what is right. We can't just go on pretending that everything is ok. I have family that smokes, and they know I don't like it. I don't love them any less, but I don't have to accept it. I accept them but smoking will always be wrong. I can't sit back, watch them kill themselves and say "hey, it's their freedom, their choice..." Sure it is, but things that are soooooo horrible should not be allowed. our rights and freedoms truly have nothing to do with this topic, it's just a defense that people use to get their way.
Freedom to kill yourself and others... what kind of freedom is that?
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Old 02-03-2005, 06:39 AM   #55
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Although you make some good points millipede, our rights and freedoms have everything to do with this. My right and wrong may be entirely different from yours. Who's to say which of us is correct?

Should the govt take away my right to consume alcohol? Should the govt take away my right to own a gun? Should the govt tell me what books I must not read? The fact is that the govt must tread very lightly when enacting laws to protect the public good vs individual rights.

If I smoke and it annoys you, avoid me. If I want to eat nothing but pasta with chocolate syrup that should be my choice, not the govts. I applaud the govt pointing out the risk. I deplore them enacting a law saying I may not.

BTW, McDs has been singled out because it is the most successful of the fast food chains. Ray Kroc created the franchise concept. He paved the way for thousands of people to own their own business. He assured success for his franchisees by providing a consistent product and promoting that product better than anyone. It's the fact that McDs product has been promoted so well that has much of the public up in arms, not the product itself. Our children can get just as poor nutrition from the grilled cheese sandwiches and Chips Ahoy cookies moms serve for lunch. Let's ban that too!!

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Old 02-03-2005, 06:54 AM   #56
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We cannot micromanage people's lives - nor should we. The best we can do is to provide people with enough information to make informed decisions.

IMO one of the first exits off of the democracy highway to solicialism and communism is the assumption that most of our population is unable to care for themselves and make decisions on their own. Once we start deciding what can be done in the privacy of one's own home, where do we stop?
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:12 AM   #57
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all this talk about freedom. It's a joke. People use that argument basically to say what they're doing isn't wrong. It has nothing to do with losing a freedom. People just don't want to be responsible for themselves. They want to feel like they can do whatever they want and feel good about it. Smoking kills people(period). I know this might be extreme buy why not legalize crack. Hey it's my life, the government shouldn't tell me I can't do drugs... sounds stupid doesn't it? rights, freedoms... it's getting rediculous.
This attitude is why we lose rights every year.

Quote:
I can guaruntee that someday they will take away things I believe in. But when they take away something that is wrong, hey it needs to be done.
Wrong i s very subjective, what you think is wrong and what I think is wrong are to different things. What makes what you think is wrong more important than what I think is wrong?

Quote:
Sure it is, but things that are soooooo horrible should not be allowed. our rights and freedoms truly have nothing to do with this topic, it's just a defense that people use to get their way.
Freedom to kill yourself and others... what kind of freedom is that?
1) Your getting a little to personally invested in this debate, I suggest you take a break.

2) Smoking is bad for you, smoking will increase your chance of lung disease and cancer, but it is just what it is, it is not sooo horrible, as you put it, it is what it is.

3) It is the ultimate freedom and it's my right. Simple fact is that if we give away [b]any[b] rights we've had, it's too many. It is not the Governments place to manage our lives. Hell we are the government, for the people by the people, it's naive to make it us or them, they are us, or at least they are supposed to be.
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:25 AM   #58
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Exactly Kevin

I want to think for myself. Not have the govt do my thinking for me. When that occurs with too much frequency, we lose what the govt was established to do in the first place. Protect my rights.
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:14 AM   #59
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Off the subject of this topic for a breif second. With respect to cancer causing agents I read in the paper and heard on the news the other day about the govt releasing a new list of potental cancer causing agents. To my suprise one of them was 'grilled meat'. Apparently sering meat at high temps causes chemical changes in the meat itself to produce chemicals that have the potental to cause cancer.

Should we then focus on grills? Is asking for your steak to be well done doing your body a disfavor?

I have always joked that eventually the govt will tell you that breathing has been shown to cause cancer so what are we to do? Just stop breathing? That would solve so many problems wouldnt it.

Back on track...

The plain and simple truth is that its our choice where we eat and what we eat. If its a selection then that means someone, somewhere felt it was something someone would want and the fact that it is offered shows that people do want it. Look at all this Atkins junk. Five years ago if you asked for a burger on a bed of lettuce instead of a bun at a fast food place they would look at you very strangly yet now its on the menu. In five more years it will french fries be replaced with rice cakes? Whos to tell. Resturants are sucessful because they adapt their offerings to the public tastes. If people dont buy it then they wont sell it. So we only have the countries population as a whole to blame. So are we to class action lawsuit the entire nation for eating unhealthly?

I heard an interview with one of the high ups with Hardiees. Aparently they have a 1300 calorie burger. Should it be outlawed? NO. Why? Folks have the choice to eat what they want. Will I ever eat that burger? Proably not because I know my daily cloric usage does not match that kind of intake for a single meal. If I was a hard laboror who worked a job that had long hours and required large amounts of physical movment then I might elect to eat this burger. Whats so unhealthy about an 1800 calorie lunch if your daily choloric usage is upward of 3000 or 3500 calories?

Its such a cop out to always blame someone else. Blame your parents for how they brought you up. Blame your boss for your being unhappy at work. Blame your spouse for disagreements. Blame the gameing industry for your bad additude. Blame anyone but yourself because its always someone elses problem... This is what we have become. A nation of "its not my fault you made me do it". Its time to stand up and reconize that we are the only ones that truly have control of our lives and everything that happens to us is ultimatly something that we brought upon ourselves thru our own actions.
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:42 AM   #60
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But some things are not our fault fishfreek. I don't have any problem with class action lawsuits against the makers of celebrex, fen-fen, Hooker Chemical, etc.
People made the decision to use those products, or buy homes at Love Canal because they felt they were making informed decisions. They were duped (intentionally or otherwise), and society needs protection from this kind of thing.

Society will never need protection from me eating a McDs.
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