Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Community Forum > Aquaria Off-Topic
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 08-09-2004, 08:52 PM   #11
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
QTOFFER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kew Gardens, NY
Posts: 4,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianNY
The situation could be resolved if the moral and benevolent nations of the world stepped up to the batters box of morality. It's why I high hold France and Germany in such disdain. They cared when it was in their backyard (Bosnia), but not any other part of the world.
That's because Bosnians are white Europeans while the people of southern Sudan are not.

Despite their recent moralistic grandstanding in the World Court and the UN, the former colonial powers of Europe are still oblivious to the mess they left behind in the Third World. Britain and France should be first in line to help in Sudan because THEY dictated the terms of their slipshod withdrawal from their former colonies and THEY created the arbitrary national boundaries that have resulted in four decades of civil wars in Africa.

What's happenong in Darfur is just the latest incarnation of the racial/tribal/religious warfare that has plagued Africa since the sixties. It's happened before in South Africa, Angola, Uganda, Somalia, Nigeria, Zaire, Rwanda, Burundi, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Ethiopia, and Sierra Leone. It's due to a combination of devastating poverty, ages-old ethnic conflicts, and weak/corrupt local governments.

I'm not sure how I would advise the President if it were my job to do so. In a sense, he's walking on eggshells. The idea of American forces invading another Muslim country would not sit well with Arab states that already hate us for being in Saudi Arbia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. He also risks being accused of conducting a 'wag-the-dog-style' operation during an election year. If you recall, Clinton was accused of trying to distract people from the Monica Lewinsky scandal by ordering cruise missile strikes on suspected terrorist targets in Sudan in 1998. Plus, our recent experiences with humanitarian missions have not gone quite as planned. Go rent 'Black Hawk Down' if you don't know what I'm talking about. If we do send troops in there we better not have them parading around with empty weapons like we did in Somalia...what a mistake that was.
__________________

__________________
QTOFFER is offline  
Old 08-09-2004, 09:15 PM   #12
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Palm Bay Fl
Posts: 4,076
Send a message via Yahoo to oscarbreeder
One of these days the USA is going to stick their nose in some other countries business and get it knocked off.

I hate to say something like that about this country but we need to take care of business HERE FIRST!

Just my opinion.
__________________

__________________
Please remember to vote for Aquarium Advice!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/kyman_33/sig.jpg
oscarbreeder is offline  
Old 08-09-2004, 09:59 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
BrianNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,535
Hmmm. Interesting. Then you condone genocide? Some things need to be addressed simply because they're so reprehensible. I'm not talking about an invasion, but I am saying that the US should take the moral high ground by making it the issue it deserves to be in the world body.
__________________
BrianNY is offline  
Old 08-09-2004, 10:20 PM   #14
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Palm Bay Fl
Posts: 4,076
Send a message via Yahoo to oscarbreeder
As long as we have homeless starving people and high unemployment in this country we should take care of that first.
__________________
Please remember to vote for Aquarium Advice!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/kyman_33/sig.jpg
oscarbreeder is offline  
Old 08-09-2004, 10:24 PM   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 3,968
I do not condone genocide, but I do not believe it is my obligation to be the world's parent. Like I said, why are we the only country that takes the reins on these things?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscarbreeder
I hate to say something like that about this country but we need to take care of business HERE FIRST!
I agree. Quit sending my FRIENDS to fight wars that do not effect our country. Can people honestly say they would think the death of their friend is justified to take care of some country 99% of America couldn't find on the map, and 90% probably couldn't positivly tell you what continent it resides on. Look at your friends, military or not, and ask that question. My closest friend lays his life on the line daily to protect this country we love, not to police some backwards country. I am not willing to sacrifice persons who will give their life to defend this country to do some actions that will not have any bearing on this one.
__________________
Bearfan is offline  
Old 08-09-2004, 11:32 PM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,728
Send a message via Yahoo to deli_conker
Quote:
Hmmm. Interesting. Then you condone genocide? Some things need to be addressed simply because they're so reprehensible.
Agreed. But who says it always has to be us that addresses such things? Are Americans the only people that feel charity for other countries? Where are all the other civilized countries of the world? Why do we not hear from them when these things become public?

I once saw two guys ready to fight. After the first couple punches, another guy moved in to break it up; he got stabbed. The other two ran. I don't know if they got caught or not and I don't know what happened to the guy who got stabbed. I do know that he prevented them from fighting that night, maybe they found each other later to finish what they started, who knows. I also know that there was a good chance that he may have died to keep them from fighting at that moment. Bottom line, it wasn't any of his business and he paid for making it his business.

Don't get me wrong, I feel bad when I hear about this sort of thing. I don't know exactly how to fix it, but I do know that America can't fix it. These are hatreds and vendettas predating America (especially when the violence is motivated by religious beliefs). Sorry, but it's not our fight. Maybe an Arab/African country would like to step up to the plate?
__________________
deli_conker is offline  
Old 08-10-2004, 12:25 AM   #17
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Crete Illinois
Posts: 656
Quote:
As long as we have homeless starving people and high unemployment in this country we should take care of that first
You got that right. There are some people out there that say:
Homeless people?...who cares! Until they are homeless.
High unemployment?..they would say, "join the Army"

If the homeless people and the unemployed just hang in there a little longer our government will send enough soldiers out to other countries to fight for their homeless and unemployed. After they die for Life, Liberty, and the American Way, there will jobs for the unemployed, and heck after they get a job they can afford a place to live! Great concept. We should not be there or anywhere else for that matter. We should take care of this country first, and the people that live in it, whether native or foreigners. Why we are sending troops to settle disputes overseas, we have 4 people beating a family to death with baseball bats over a stupid video game. This is what we need to take care of.

Quote:
I do not condone genocide, but I do not believe it is my obligation to be the world's parent. Like I said, why are we the only country that takes the reins on these things?
A very good point. All of the countries were screaming at the US for "invading" Iraq. Saying some very bad things about this country. But when they captured Sadam Hussein and (According to Bush) took control of the country and started the drive to put it back together, all those countries now want a piece of the action.
Where were they when all of the "other" conflicts were going on? Why wont these "other poor" countries ask them for help? It high time we step back and see what the rest of the world is made of. We are strong, we don't need to prove it to anyone on the face of this earth. They already know.

Quote:
Agreed. But who says it always has to be us that addresses such things? Are Americans the only people that feel charity for other countries? Where are all the other civilized countries of the world? Why do we not hear from them when these things become public?
See above.


Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I feel bad when I hear about this sort of thing. I don't know exactly how to fix it, but I do know that America can't fix it. These are hatreds and vendettas predating America (especially when the violence is motivated by religious beliefs). Sorry, but it's not our fight. Maybe an Arab/African country would like to step up to the plate?

Case in point. Israel and Palestine. Read the Bible. That fight has been going on since the beginning of time. We are not going to fix it, and nobody but those two countries are going to be able to fix it. It won't happen in my lifetime I can say that for sure. Both sides of that conflict breed that hatred for one another into their children. I should retract that and say "most". There are some on both sides that believe that killing each other is wrong for any reason and instill that into the sons and daughters that they bear.
I came from a very prejudiced family. My father and Mother both were raised to hate the African American race. I broke away from that, I broke that cycle with myself and my wife. I instilled the same belief into my sons. My whole family is far from what my parents were raised on.

I can go on and on, but all it will do is start more discussion and get angrier and angrier. I said what I believe and agree with others here about certain issues. This is what I got to say. I will not respond further, but I will watch the thread because it is interesting to see how other people feel about this.

Peace.

Mike
__________________
125 Gal-35 Gal Wet/Dry-Tetra-Tec PF500 HOB Filter
(3) AuquaClear 301 Powerheads-600 GPH Circulating Pump
Automatic Tempature Controller
5-6 Inch Sand Bed-200+ lbs of LR
Sparky is offline  
Old 08-10-2004, 01:53 AM   #18
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
fisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 169
Backwards nation? I hope you people are joking when you use this to describe an underdeveloped country. Having different culture does not make a country backwards. Wouldnt the richest country in the world and countries in europe that saw genocide in their backyard not doing anything about this situation be considered backward? We supposedly sent troops to Iraq to give the people freedom. But thats the only country where the people deserve freedom. I guess if we just sit idly by and do nothing about the situation there will be nobody to free. Backwards is not being different. Backwards is thinking its ok to condone genocide because its not your business. Genocide is everybodies business and should be stopped no matter how politically unpopular it is.
__________________
fisch is offline  
Old 08-10-2004, 07:42 AM   #19
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
BrianNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,535
I think most here have missed the real point if you're assuming military intervention by the US alone is what's being advocated.

1. If the media has been stifled in it's attempts to make the world aware of this human tragedy, then those who censor are condoning the actions (in a sense).

2. To witness an act of this magnitude and shrug ones shoulders without even a protest is cowardly.

3. All of the conflicts and ills of the world will never be corrected. That is true. However, there are things that can be done to lesson the extent of the suffering. The first of which is a worldwide condemnation of the atrocity.
__________________
BrianNY is offline  
Old 08-10-2004, 07:53 AM   #20
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Atari's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianNY
I think most here have missed the real point
I couldn't agree more, but in a different context. The point being missed is the purpose behind this thread, and I for one would be quite pissed by now if I personally had started this topic.

If you guys want this debate then please, out of respect, start your own thread. You don't see anyone arguing in Rev's thread that we should give our $5 to charity instead of to this forum?

SHEESH.
__________________

__________________
My wife and I were happy for twenty years. Then we met.
- Rodney Dangerfield.


Click HERE to vote for Aquarium Advice!
Atari is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
cover, media

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cover or no cover? phooka Freshwater & Brackish - Planted Tanks 9 08-23-2008 04:05 PM
Need A Cover Viperboy Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 16 09-08-2006 12:06 AM
What to cover tank with mayreee Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 3 01-01-2005 05:46 PM
To cover or not to cover my tank JoeA Saltwater Reef Aquaria 2 11-19-2004 12:16 PM
To cover or not to cover... dansemacabre Saltwater Reef Aquaria 13 12-25-2003 02:52 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.