Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Community Forum > Aquaria Off-Topic
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 04-07-2005, 02:45 PM   #61
AA Team Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,256
Send a message via ICQ to fishfreek Send a message via AIM to fishfreek Send a message via MSN to fishfreek Send a message via Yahoo to fishfreek
Your gonna feel the gas prices yourself. Riding public transportion they have to get their fuel from somewhere and it will get to a point where they 'pass the buck' so to speak and charge higher transport fees or rase city taxes to cover the higher costs. This is why I said EVERYONE will be affected. Even if you walk or ride a bike everywhere unless your 100% self sustaning and never purchase anything. Then of course you wouldnt be affected. But groceries will go up as it costs more to farm the food and transport the food from field to store. Consumer goods will go up as raw parts cost more to cover suppliers shipping costs and the companies will just pass the buck. So it not only costs you more to go to the store but the products themselves are higher in cost. Wages will lag behind such inflation levels.
__________________

__________________
Remember dont tap the glass, your fish will think you're an idiot -Anonymous mother

Check out our articles area. 30+ Aquatic articles for your enjoyment
Are you in or around the Shenandoah Valley area? If so click here to join our regional forum.
fishfreek is offline  
Old 04-07-2005, 02:52 PM   #62
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
BrianNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,535
Clown, you've got a personal vendetta. Gasoline at $100 a gallon would mean no employment for any of us. I respect your opinion as your arguments are valid. The thing is, those that want 8,000lb SUVs have the right to own them. They are already paying more money to drive them. Why should the govt. excasorbate that? If you're offended by that, its because you don't want one.
__________________

__________________
BrianNY is offline  
Old 04-07-2005, 03:07 PM   #63
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianNY
Clown, you've got a personal vendetta. Gasoline at $100 a gallon would mean no employment for any of us. I respect your opinion as your arguments are valid. The thing is, those that want 8,000lb SUVs have the right to own them. They are already paying more money to drive them. Why should the govt. excasorbate that? If you're offended by that, its because you don't want one.

Without a doubt, high oil prices are the best way to stagnate our economy, but some are hurt more than others. It's all relative. People have a right to own 8,000 lb SUVs? Sure they do. But if you'd like make our economy LESS reliant on oil, you have to discourage them. Regardless of the tax you impose some people will still buy them and that's their right.
In the same way there are high taxes on cigarettes. Is it fair in the purest sense of capitalism that smokers should be excluded and taxed? No, but we're not living in a purely capitalistic state. Smoker's poor health is bourne by all taxpayers and therefore should be (and is) discouraged by the government.

I'm not offended by large vehicles. I've owned my share of large vehicles. But I've also taken into account the price of fuel and the practicality of owning one. I wouldn't buy one now and anyone who buys a vehicle that gets 10-12 mpg now deserves what he gets.
__________________
We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worshipped will be gone.

And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong, they decide and the shotgun sings the song.



125 SW
80 lb LR
330w PC
Euphyllia, Alveopora, Pachyclauvularia (Metallic Green and Daisy), Frogspawn, Torch, Gold Nepthea, Kenya Tree, Galaxea, Pulsing Xenia, various leather (umbrella, toadstool, fingers, devil fingers, lettuce)
Maroon Clown/White tip LT anemone, Powder Blue Tang, Female Swallow Angel, SixLine Wrasse, Solar Fairy Wrasse, Firefish, Fathead Anthias, Blue Mandarin, 3 Chromis, 3 Green Gobies
Clown Monarch is offline  
Old 04-07-2005, 03:18 PM   #64
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfreek
Your gonna feel the gas prices yourself. Riding public transportion they have to get their fuel from somewhere and it will get to a point where they 'pass the buck' so to speak and charge higher transport fees or rase city taxes to cover the higher costs.
It's true. Electricity that powers my train is a substitute for gasoline and is impacted by the price of gas. However in the past 5 years the price of a monthly pass has gone from $139-$153. During that same time, gasoline users have seen their costs double.
__________________
We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worshipped will be gone.

And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong, they decide and the shotgun sings the song.



125 SW
80 lb LR
330w PC
Euphyllia, Alveopora, Pachyclauvularia (Metallic Green and Daisy), Frogspawn, Torch, Gold Nepthea, Kenya Tree, Galaxea, Pulsing Xenia, various leather (umbrella, toadstool, fingers, devil fingers, lettuce)
Maroon Clown/White tip LT anemone, Powder Blue Tang, Female Swallow Angel, SixLine Wrasse, Solar Fairy Wrasse, Firefish, Fathead Anthias, Blue Mandarin, 3 Chromis, 3 Green Gobies
Clown Monarch is offline  
Old 04-07-2005, 03:59 PM   #65
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
BrianNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,535
Kudos to you Clown. You can carry on a spirited debate without resorting to personal attacks. Good job, and some of your arguments actually make sense to me.

We differ on a basic philosophy however. Free enterprise means no govt penalties.
The cigarette issue has been brought up on another thread, and I don't want to rehash that but........... I could make the case that although cigarettes shorten ones life span, they reduce medical costs. After all, everybody dies from something. The over weight smoker that drops dead of a heart attack is less of a cost burden then the 90 year old living with a variety of age related illnesses.

The incentive for moving away from an oil based energy dependancy is much more likely with tax credits than tax penalties. My capitalism 101 so to speak. Rewards have a bigger impact on moving forward, than penalties.
__________________
BrianNY is offline  
Old 04-07-2005, 04:39 PM   #66
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
QTOFFER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kew Gardens, NY
Posts: 4,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Monarch
The problem is that everyone now wants 4-wheel drive - that's where all the weight comes from. I'd be willing to bet that 99.99999% of soccer-moms with a 5,000 lb+ SUV have no intention of ever taking it off-road or otherwise having ANY use for 4WD... I see 100 massive SUVs in Chicago everyday and RARELY does one ever have anyone in it besides the driver.
I agree with this 100%. Most people who buy 4WD SUV's are buying into an image that says, "Look at me everybody...I've got mine!" I very rarely see an SUV with more than one occupant - or a cargo area full of mountain bikes, tents, and kayaks like you see in the commercials. They're not very convenient for families because they are so darn high off the ground - imagine strapping a squirming 2-year old into a carseat in the back of an SUV. That's why most families get minivans, which are NOT SUVs. They are what the station wagon was to our grandparents.

The thing besides their weight that makes most SUVs so fuel inefficient are their honking huge engine blocks. Unless you're pulling a house or commuting over a mountain range, you really don't need all that power. But the auto manufacturers say that you do, and these are the same people who are so resistant to implementing new technologies that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
__________________
QTOFFER is offline  
Old 04-07-2005, 05:15 PM   #67
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 711
No sense in personal attacks - just friendly discussion.

I'm all for subsidies over taxes because I believe most taxes to be bad (I was gonna say ALL, but I guess we can't exactly pass the hat for roads and sewer lines).

But when you REALLY want to discourage something, taxes are the way to go. I believe in a gasoline tax for no other reason than to encourage the growth of alternative sources. It'll help smooth the transition, too.
__________________
We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worshipped will be gone.

And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong, they decide and the shotgun sings the song.



125 SW
80 lb LR
330w PC
Euphyllia, Alveopora, Pachyclauvularia (Metallic Green and Daisy), Frogspawn, Torch, Gold Nepthea, Kenya Tree, Galaxea, Pulsing Xenia, various leather (umbrella, toadstool, fingers, devil fingers, lettuce)
Maroon Clown/White tip LT anemone, Powder Blue Tang, Female Swallow Angel, SixLine Wrasse, Solar Fairy Wrasse, Firefish, Fathead Anthias, Blue Mandarin, 3 Chromis, 3 Green Gobies
Clown Monarch is offline  
Old 04-08-2005, 11:19 AM   #68
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Front Royal VA
Posts: 1,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Monarch

I remember riding with my uncle when I was 5-6 years old. Riding shotgun in his green Plymouth Satellite, sliding back and forth across the vinyl bench seat along with his half-pack of Lucky's and the 2 cans of Old Milwaukee left on the ring. Foghat on the radio as he yelled out the window at people. I'm not sure that car even had seatbelts. If it did they were the last thought on anyone's mind.

I'll take those times back anyday.
I remember those days too I got to stand up in the front seat of my Grandfathers lincoln convertible... top down... makes me shudder...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyfanatic
Older vehicles don't get good gas mileage but that doesn't mean that we should ban them from the streets or make the owners poor by taking their money for taxes.
Some people that own these cars (exception/ the restored classics) cant afford a new car anyways! Let alone the taxes! Good Heavens dont let the commonwealth of VA get a hold of that idea! They already tax us every way possible! after I get my tags, I have to have an inspection... thats fine. Safety!
Then I have to go pay a personal property tax... for buying the car. Then I have to go get a town sticker... that says I paid my tax.
Then they charge me every year just to have that car... if I dont pay the tax... I cant get a town sticker... then I will get a nice yellow piece of paper from Johnny Law...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianNY
Well that's just fine Clown Monarch. Your 330w PC uses far more energy then most peoples single strip light. Now you want that lighting, but you really don't NEED it. Would you agree with taxing yourself for excessive power consumption? I mean afterall, you decided to use that much lighting.

How is it different with an automobile, or air conditioning ones home?

ohhh good one...! and good comeback Clown Monarch!

All of this thread has been very interesting. I agree with some, but disagree with alot Im seeing, Driving is a privilege, not a right. But I feel its my right as a consumer to choose the vehicle I want, need or can afford. I dont think that I should be punished because I may need a large vehicle. So what if someone decideds they want to have 12 kids. They need a large van... and even if they are getting tax breaks out the wazoo... they are STILL very tight on money... so we are going to tax them there? Im rehashing stuff that has already been said, Im sorry. This has been a very interesting topic!
__________________
Melody is offline  
Old 04-08-2005, 12:07 PM   #69
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,728
Send a message via Yahoo to deli_conker
A lot to read since I las looked at this one...

Fuel cells are the way to go. All that energy with the H2O being what is emitted. But as said earlier, we all have to jump together to make that happen. And that probably won't happen without a government push to make it happen. People with hybrid cars get a tax break. They need to get the fuel cell technology rolling so it can be made affordable. Government aid would do this.
__________________
deli_conker is offline  
Old 04-08-2005, 01:24 PM   #70
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 711
Have you seen the Mercedes concept car that runs on hydrogen? Hydrogen is readily abundant, cheap, and the only emissions would be water. Is that what you're talking about, deli?

Sounds like a dream, eh?

Why haven't we been developing the holy heck out of this? I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist so I'm pretty sure that too many influential people derive too much income from oil in this country to let that happen.
__________________

__________________
We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worshipped will be gone.

And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong, they decide and the shotgun sings the song.



125 SW
80 lb LR
330w PC
Euphyllia, Alveopora, Pachyclauvularia (Metallic Green and Daisy), Frogspawn, Torch, Gold Nepthea, Kenya Tree, Galaxea, Pulsing Xenia, various leather (umbrella, toadstool, fingers, devil fingers, lettuce)
Maroon Clown/White tip LT anemone, Powder Blue Tang, Female Swallow Angel, SixLine Wrasse, Solar Fairy Wrasse, Firefish, Fathead Anthias, Blue Mandarin, 3 Chromis, 3 Green Gobies
Clown Monarch is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
gas

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sore on fish Phoenixphire55 Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 1 03-26-2009 09:08 PM
all that stuff about gas prices.... rubysoho Aquaria Off-Topic 11 09-24-2005 02:33 AM
Comet With Sore RogerMcAllen Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 5 08-11-2003 10:24 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.