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Old 03-10-2005, 06:14 PM   #31
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On newegg.com it cost $108 with shipping.
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We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worshipped will be gone.

And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong, they decide and the shotgun sings the song.



125 SW
80 lb LR
330w PC
Euphyllia, Alveopora, Pachyclauvularia (Metallic Green and Daisy), Frogspawn, Torch, Gold Nepthea, Kenya Tree, Galaxea, Pulsing Xenia, various leather (umbrella, toadstool, fingers, devil fingers, lettuce)
Maroon Clown/White tip LT anemone, Powder Blue Tang, Female Swallow Angel, SixLine Wrasse, Solar Fairy Wrasse, Firefish, Fathead Anthias, Blue Mandarin, 3 Chromis, 3 Green Gobies
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Old 03-10-2005, 06:16 PM   #32
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Nice! I know what I'm doing when I get home tonight! Shhh don't tell the wife!
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Old 03-10-2005, 06:21 PM   #33
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Here's the one I got:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-410&depa=1
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We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worshipped will be gone.

And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong, they decide and the shotgun sings the song.



125 SW
80 lb LR
330w PC
Euphyllia, Alveopora, Pachyclauvularia (Metallic Green and Daisy), Frogspawn, Torch, Gold Nepthea, Kenya Tree, Galaxea, Pulsing Xenia, various leather (umbrella, toadstool, fingers, devil fingers, lettuce)
Maroon Clown/White tip LT anemone, Powder Blue Tang, Female Swallow Angel, SixLine Wrasse, Solar Fairy Wrasse, Firefish, Fathead Anthias, Blue Mandarin, 3 Chromis, 3 Green Gobies
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Old 03-10-2005, 06:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyZ
I hate to be so blunt, but you are just simply wrong.
No I'm not. That article does nothing but say "so and so said this...". It's like a cautionary tale..."If you tell lies, Lockjaw the Ogre will pull you from your bed at night and nail your jaw shut with a rusty nail using his head for a hammer." It is an exercise in erring on the side of caution. You never know how an end user is going to mess up a pc (yeah, they say they don't look at porn sites and don't try to download movies). So you scare them with "what ifs" or disallow them from a connection. I have to do that to people where I work. The only way that it (the article) could be true is if they had an opening somewhere. Such as the (old) default of enabling file and print sharing. There has to be an open door for somebody to do something. Nothing is just going to walk in.

You may have missed this from before...
Quote:
Originally Posted by deli_conker
Like I said earlier, I run a very clean operating system. The only program running in the background aside from what is needed to run the OS is a firewall.
With no open ports there is no way in. Cut down the number of protocols you're using (TCP/IP should be good for most) and install a firewall. After that, make sure you know what you're telling your computer to do when you open an attachment, visit a web site you probably shouldn't be visiting, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyZ
Monarch, that list is the windows system registry. Be very careful when changing that. If you're not sure of what you're doing, I wouldn't modify it manually. That said, start>run>regedit... be careful
Very true. If you mess it up too bad, you'll end up having to reinstall your OS. You'd be much better off by checking out MSCONFIG as mentioned earlier and then maybe looking through the services under computer management.

I run windows 2000 sp4. No other patches. And no virii or spyware to date (2 year old installation). I have a firewall and am behind a NATting router. I may set up another 2k box this weekend with no patches at all, in front of the router, no firewall and see if anything touches it. We'll test the 20 minute theory...

Back on topic...

The 9600 has 2 different versions, XT and SE. SE is the crap one. If that's what you got, take it back and tell them you got the wrong one. When I was researching video cards, I found that the 9600 XT and 9800 are almost identical in performance (I can't verify this as I don't have both). I went with the 9600 XT 128Mb and have had no issues whatsoever. Very nice card and not overly expensive compared to other more expensive ones.
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Old 03-11-2005, 04:17 AM   #35
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I have the ATI 9800pro, and I just replaced it today with the Nvidia 6600GT. Hands down, 6600GT wins that match, on HL2, CS:S, and WoW. Awesome card--I was an ATI freak but now I'm a Nvidia man.
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Old 03-11-2005, 10:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawmutt
I have the ATI 9800pro, and I just replaced it today with the Nvidia 6600GT. Hands down, 6600GT wins that match, on HL2, CS:S, and WoW. Awesome card--I was an ATI freak but now I'm a Nvidia man.
I went from a GeForce4 to the 9600 XT; huge difference. I've always liked NVidia because they write Linux drivers for their hardware.
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Old 03-11-2005, 10:55 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deli_conker
No I'm not. That article does nothing but say "so and so said this...". It's like a cautionary tale..."If you tell lies, Lockjaw the Ogre will pull you from your bed at night and nail your jaw shut with a rusty nail using his head for a hammer." It is an exercise in erring on the side of caution. ... There has to be an open door for somebody to do something. Nothing is just going to walk in.
You consider isc.sans.org a "so and so"?

I really don't want to keep going back to this, but you're misleading others that may be reading this thread. You and I are behind firewalls and are aware of what "best practices" are, but you have to remember 90% of the world's user base is not. People either without the time, interest or patience to learn what needs to be done to properly secure their machines are vulnerable. I don't have the time to dig up all the information but this Microsoft Security Bulletin (MS03-026) explains one of the leading issues in an UNPATCHED windows installation. NOTE that it says it affects Win 95/98/2000/XP and 2003! This is not a "so and so said this" this is straight from the horses mouth. Read the midigating factors carefully. It lists what ports the vulnerability comes through (and that they are open by DEFAULT). It says if your exposed to the internet you are at risk. Don't be mislead by the statement, "Windows Internet Connection Firewall (ICF) block those ports by default." because ICF itself is NOT installed/enabled by default in unpatched 95/98/XP/2000(I don't have experience with 2003 but I'm assuming it's included). I have been "at this" for over ten years. My statements are not a "so and so's third cousin's wife's brother..." this has happened to me personally. Installing windows 2000 on a machine shortly before that article came out, the first piece of software installed after the operating system was antivirus. During installation it flagged that the machine was already infected. This is first hand experience.

You said you had an old box to install windows 2000 on. I say you do exactly that. No patches or service packs. After you install it, run "netstat -an" and see what's listed as "listening" by default. That will be the first thing to prove ports are open by default. Leave it unpatched and outside your firewall/router and as long as it has a valid IP and internet connection... you will see trouble. Now note... that article is almost a year old, the "20 minutes" may not be valid as those virii may have passed their prime. But i'm sure if you left it up and open you'll get hit with something before very long.



Monarch: ARG! my mother board will only take a 4x AGP card... So I can't get the $100 plan! I'm deffintely shopping around though... I will probably order something today!
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Old 03-11-2005, 11:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by BillyZ

Monarch: ARG! my mother board will only take a 4x AGP card... So I can't get the $100 plan! I'm deffintely shopping around though... I will probably order something today!

But that card says it works for 8x/4x? At least I hope that's what it means. Doh, I'm getting the feeling I'm gonna be sending this thing back...
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We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worshipped will be gone.

And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong, they decide and the shotgun sings the song.



125 SW
80 lb LR
330w PC
Euphyllia, Alveopora, Pachyclauvularia (Metallic Green and Daisy), Frogspawn, Torch, Gold Nepthea, Kenya Tree, Galaxea, Pulsing Xenia, various leather (umbrella, toadstool, fingers, devil fingers, lettuce)
Maroon Clown/White tip LT anemone, Powder Blue Tang, Female Swallow Angel, SixLine Wrasse, Solar Fairy Wrasse, Firefish, Fathead Anthias, Blue Mandarin, 3 Chromis, 3 Green Gobies
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Old 03-11-2005, 11:18 AM   #39
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Yea I just cought that too... the text description says it's 8x. but product specs say 4x/8x... I emailed support@newegg.com asking for a clarificaiton. We'll see if they reply. I'm hoping they say the product specs are right... my credit card is IN HAND!
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyZ
After you install it, run "netstat -an" and see what's listed as "listening" by default. That will be the first thing to prove ports are open by default.
I had said that already, but used the word "opening" instead of port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deli_conker
The only way that it (the article) could be true is if they had an opening somewhere. Such as the (old) default of enabling file and print sharing. There has to be an open door for somebody to do something.
My point is that if you are behind a firewall or have otherwise closed all ports, then NOTHING can just enter your pc. Unless you ask it to, that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyZ
My statements are not a "so and so's third cousin's wife's brother..." this has happened to me personally. Installing windows 2000 on a machine shortly before that article came out, the first piece of software installed after the operating system was antivirus. During installation it flagged that the machine was already infected. This is first hand experience.
Why would you install an OS (from disk) while connected to a network? Other issues come into play on this one that aren't even related to virii and scumware.

The 2000 box was up and running as of 8:09 pm EST and as of 6:30 am is still clear of any "foreign" presence. I have no way of testing "probes" as there is no software installed on the machine to check for such things. I may do some random grabs with ethereal from another machine on the network just to take a peek every now and then. But so far, no problems. And that's with file and print sharing enabled (by default)!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Monarch
But that card says it works for 8x/4x? At least I hope that's what it means. Doh, I'm getting the feeling I'm gonna be sending this thing back...
It should work. Even if it only says 8x on the package. It's called backwards compatibility. The only issues you may run into deal with voltage. The 1x-2x-4x agp cards run at 1.5V while the 8x runs at .8V. Most 8x video cards have no problem with this and will run just fine (albeit at the 4x bus speed). If you want to make the best of your card, you'll want a faster slot (ie new motherboard).

My 9600 XT is an 8x card and is running just fine in my intel board with a 4x slot.
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