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Old 10-08-2011, 12:57 AM   #71
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I don't have a problem with people asking simple questions about things like PH and what not. I just wish they would word them as clearly as possible and give us as much background information as they can. Read the sticky's before posting and you will most likely find the answers to your questions.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:32 AM   #72
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"Participants may not post or bump threads to pad post counts or to keep a thread active. Bumping is posting useless information, posting one-liners or other 'content-free' posts to deliberately keep a thread hot."

To me that means you can't bump in order to increase your post count or try to keep a thread active for no reason
. But iff you can't find your answer any other way and you really need help and if your topic has fallen off of the first page, I don't see why you couldn't bump it just once. I'm not a moderator here, but I think that in some cases bumping would be acceptable.
I agree, but I don't really define it as bumping if someone just posts on their thread another question, or clarification, or if anyone else can help. It serves the same purpose, keeps some content flowing, and is more enjoyable to read than a post that says 'bump'.

To me it falls along the same lines as people that post a very generic or vague question and then have no content in the thread at all. It's like someone expects or asks for help with something but doesn't bother to exert much effort to get it.

My other rant is when people post "+1" without any additional content. I click on a thread thinking that there is an update or response and all I see is a +1 from someone, at least put some information along with the agreement lol. Thank goodness for the 15 character minimum, even though people write out '15 characters' which kind of defeats the purpose also, another rant!
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:56 AM   #73
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I will take issue with this statement, While I agree that research is good, the problem is that there is so much bad info on the internet, that it can lead to confusion. I don't think "Is my pH too high ?" is a dumb question. Researching it is liable to confuse a person more as there are many myths about pH, many opinions presented as facts, and many "articles" that are non factual and merely regurgitation of something from years ago, that wasn't true then or now. Everyday I see nonsense about pH requirements for certain species of fish. Research would lead you to believe you need soft water with an acidy pH to keep angels or very hard very alkaline water to keep rift lake cichlids. Neither is true, but those are the answers you will get if you research. Those are often the answers you get if you ask on a forum.
I digress, but the point I wish to make is that coming to this forum is research, and can avoid a lot of wasted time trying to find an answer. Here you will probably get an answer, even if it is wrong, which is another issue.
It is NOT a dumb question, but it has been answered many, many times. Asking it will simply generate another thread full of answers, dubious theories, and confusion. The pH question is a common one. It's common enough that there are further derivations of the question for almost every common species. Additionally, asking a questions without doing research opens up the possibility of being lead astray by incorrect or misguided questions. This is the internet after all, and ambiguity is a fact of life. Even if there are inconsistencies with the information, a general consensus can be determined with enough research, which should be more reliable than a single thread of responses.

Independent research should be a cornerstone of any involved hobby such as our own. Being able to quickly find information to predictable questions (pH problems, ick, etc) is an invaluable skill, especially when time is a major concern. Dependent research is better for more advanced or involved questions, such as advice on how to breed SA cichlids at high pH.

Personally, I would much prefer it if people with common questions would lay out what they know already so that we might tailor a response better. It shows engagement on their part, which I would be more likely to support.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:00 AM   #74
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I agree with BillD on the research. The internet is flooded with empty information just like twinkies and hoe hoes are flooded with empty calories. When I first started out I would google things, and find so much conflicting information that it gave me a headache. Then, I would ask on a forum (and as you can see I have no problems typing out my questions and giving lots of information) and I had people (not on this forum) post the "let me google that for you" links. The links they took me to were not good, solid, fact based sites.

DragonFish mentioned how he went to the library as a kid and read all he could. I don't want to suggest that every book published is a credible source, but there was a little bit of a safety net in the publishing process. I don't think too many people published books that are just parroted bad information. I agree that you NEED to do research. But google doesn't fix everything.

Also...sometimes people don't know WHAT to ask. Certainly a little poking around may lead them to the right question, but simple short questions may be a frustrated attempt at asking the right question. This is especially true if you just got suckered at the LFS/Chain pet store for lots of money only to be greeted online with "get familiar with your bucket or get rid of you fish!"

As a side note: I am very impressed with how civil this has stayed with how fast it has grown. A lot of us seem to have strong opinions one way or another, but I haven't seen too much mudslinging.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:12 AM   #75
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I agree with BillD on the research. The internet is flooded with empty information just like twinkies and hoe hoes are flooded with empty calories. When I first started out I would google things, and find so much conflicting information that it gave me a headache. Then, I would ask on a forum (and as you can see I have no problems typing out my questions and giving lots of information) and I had people (not on this forum) post the "let me google that for you" links. The links they took me to were not good, solid, fact based sites.

DragonFish mentioned how he went to the library as a kid and read all he could. I don't want to suggest that every book published is a credible source, but there was a little bit of a safety net in the publishing process. I don't think too many people published books that are just parroted bad information. I agree that you NEED to do research. But google doesn't fix everything.

Also...sometimes people don't know WHAT to ask. Certainly a little poking around may lead them to the right question, but simple short questions may be a frustrated attempt at asking the right question. This is especially true if you just got suckered at the LFS/Chain pet store for lots of money only to be greeted online with "get familiar with your bucket or get rid of you fish!"

As a side note: I am very impressed with how civil this has stayed with how fast it has grown. A lot of us seem to have strong opinions one way or another, but I haven't seen too much mudslinging.
It takes a knack to find reliable sources. My advice for anyone is to find one or two reliable and well used sources and stick to them. I generally only use AA and plantedtank.net for anything, but you might find different options. Google's site command is great for this, ie, search "site:aquariumadvice.com goldfish ich" to search only AA for ich and goldfish.

I've asked questions before (on other forums) and got wrong-ish answers. Poor stocking opinions, or rather, overly conservative stocking opinions (4 WCMM in a 10g being overstocked). This is why it is vitally important to develop a consensus over multiple posts rather than taking a single thread at face value. It's true that there IS conflicting information, but if you limit your results to, say, the last two years, you will find that while outliers exist, there probably plurality opinion on an issue.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:15 AM   #76
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Personally, I would much prefer it if people with common questions would lay out what they know already so that we might tailor a response better. It shows engagement on their part, which I would be more likely to support.
I do agree that this would be wonderful. I should be better about it myself. But I can think of two reasons off the top of my head why it doesn't happen.

1. If you are new to forums in general, you may simply not know how to interact. I knocked heads with several people on the first forum I joined because I wasn't educated in the culture of a forum. I have since learned a lot more about how they work and how to function in one. I definitely posted some repeat, could have answered myself, basic questions when I first started. There can be a learning curve in online forum writing. In fact its almost like you are starting two hobbies at once: fish keeping and online forum writing.

2. While it may frustrate people to see one liners, they do get more attention than the well laid out questions that contain all the proper information. After I learned how to more appropriately ask questions on a forum I found myself angry that my posts would go days unanswered (on another forum). I am guilty of intentionally posting a question that was basic and lacking background information to get people involved in the thread. The squeaky wheel does get the grease. I don't do that anymore, but can imagine that other people are just as observant as I am.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:18 AM   #77
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2. While it may frustrate people to see one liners, they do get more attention than the well laid out questions that contain all the proper information. After I learned how to more appropriately ask questions on a forum I found myself angry that my posts would go days unanswered (on another forum). I am guilty of intentionally posting a question that was basic and lacking background information to get people involved in the thread. The squeaky wheel does get the grease. I don't do that anymore, but can imagine that other people are just as observant as I am.
I agree.
I honestly think that a lot of that attention is people posting asking basic questions. If the person has already gone over that in their initial post then it cuts all of those responses out and gets to the meat of the issue. That said, though, the really really long threads I tend to leave alone for a time to where I can sit and digest everything in one sitting.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:31 AM   #78
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I do agree that this would be wonderful. I should be better about it myself. But I can think of two reasons off the top of my head why it doesn't happen.

1. If you are new to forums in general, you may simply not know how to interact. I knocked heads with several people on the first forum I joined because I wasn't educated in the culture of a forum. I have since learned a lot more about how they work and how to function in one. I definitely posted some repeat, could have answered myself, basic questions when I first started. There can be a learning curve in online forum writing. In fact its almost like you are starting two hobbies at once: fish keeping and online forum writing.

2. While it may frustrate people to see one liners, they do get more attention than the well laid out questions that contain all the proper information. After I learned how to more appropriately ask questions on a forum I found myself angry that my posts would go days unanswered (on another forum). I am guilty of intentionally posting a question that was basic and lacking background information to get people involved in the thread. The squeaky wheel does get the grease. I don't do that anymore, but can imagine that other people are just as observant as I am.
On #1: There's nothing we can do about that other than education on etiquette or well layed out stickies spelling out dos and donts (which we may or may not have).


I think we need to subdivide a little bit here. There are two kinds of posters that I am talking about. One tries doing research, but gets over their head. They usually at least have a smattering of information by that point, which should help them formulate a more specific questions. Another, and I say this at risk of being offensive, wants to be spoon fed knowledge rather than put in the legwork to learn themselves. It's the former that I try to discourage.

In the context of the planted tank section, an example of the latter would be "What do I need for plants?". And example of the former would be "Do I need CO2?" or "What fertilizer should I be using?".
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:48 AM   #79
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I do agree with most of the comments here, however sometimes I do use lol probably more than I should it's just to keep the conversation positive and I like to laugh a lot I guess. But one thing I'm not real comfortable with is saying if you can't afford animals you shouldn't get them or have them. But what about someone who had the means for the more expensive car and animals and after years of hard work was laid off? But yet they don't want to have to give up everything they own (material things yes) including their animals, so they might have to really tighten their belts but it doesn't mean they don't care about their animals they might just have too much pride to ask for help? I've seen this a lot lately and it actually happened to someone close to me and she actually ended up having to give up her horses but she fought ( tooth and nail) bless her heart to keep them!! It's really sad when this happens because the last things you want to give up after a job loss or health issue (cancer or heart disease) is your 4 legged best friends or the finned best friends! I see this like I said quite often that's part of what I do is animal rescues or fostering until finding them a forever home due to a lot of these situations and I'm telling you it's very heart wrenching to see someone in this position! " Well I just lost my house now I have to move to an apartment and have to get rid of my animals too" When people don't have the funds or money it doesn't always mean they've never had them they could just be down on their luck! Also as far as grammar I try to do my best but sometimes I make some mistakes! Blame it on the IPad lol! I remember when I first started this forum it was about a month after getting my Tiger Oscar ( a rescue fish btw) at first I wasn't sure if I was going to keep him or not and I had him in a 55g tank temporarily and was in the process of getting a 75g tank set up that I had gone out and bought just for him because when I got him he wasn't in really good shape. But anyway to get to the point someone on here was very rude to me and told me my 55 g was way overstocked! At first it REALLY hurt my feelings because he didn't know the situation nor did he inquire to ask! Here I thought I was doing a really good humane thing by saving this Tiger Oscar and this guy was being rude! It made me feel so bad I didn't even post for at least a week or so and debated on whether I would cancel my account or not! So I think we should all try and be thoughtful of each others feelings before we just lash out at somebody because you don't always know their situation. Except for that experience I've really enjoyed this forum and for the most part everyone is pretty friendly and nice! Sorry but that's my rant!! Btw I'm glad I kept my Tiger Oscar I've nursed him back to health and he is doing great and is one of my favorite fish!!
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:00 AM   #80
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Just a personal observation but I've never seen a moderator intervention or issue brought up when a person's post has fallen to the wayside and they post again on it a day or so later and ask if anyone can help. I personally don't consider that bumping, at least per the definition given here.
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