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Old 07-02-2015, 06:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mr_X View Post
Another point I might add is that folks on one forum seem to take a stand on what is fact, just because some alleged guru may or may not have said so and then it becomes the norm there, even though it might very well be incorrect. Then they come preaching these adopted, "facts" perhaps because their abrasiveness wore out their welcome at other places, and don't like it when everyone disagrees. They quickly resort to personal attacks and bashing. Hardly the "quality help" a newcomer needs, don't you agree?
ABSOLUTELY!!!
I always ask, " If 1 million people repeat wrong information to 1 million other people and they repeat it and so on, does it make the information right just because millions of people heard it? That's my gripe with the internet but that's me.
As for the bashing, I was typing about that as you were posting and YES, it's a shame that people resort to that. But that's where my stubbornness comes into play. I can prove with pics or books pretty much everything I say. Someone needs to be able to do the same to change my mind.
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:52 PM   #12
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Engineers are always right. or at least we think so. Personally, I have come to be able to gage what I can and cannot do. For example, I gave up on dragonets years ago after seeing so many hit the toilet. When I forget these lessons, I and the live stock suffer. You can get into a instant argument over that. I studied surgeonfish on the reef for decades. When I built my tank it was with that insight in mind. But what I learned and have practiced places me in the tang police abuse cycle. I have given up commenting on the perfectly happy 12" tang in the 75 gallon. If I can't give a fish it's normal life span, or longer, I don't consider it a success.


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Old 07-02-2015, 07:26 PM   #13
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Well I am glad I got to virtually meet you. I'm not that far behind you (57) and last year, celebrated 50 years as a hobbyist. I also spent over 40 years "in the biz". I don't have an ego issue today. I used to in my teens however. Many of the people I either worked for or were in competition with used to describe me as "thinking my "stuff" didn't stink." The fact was that I was more experienced at that age than most people because of who I had had who mentored me. Not to say there wasn't more to learn but I was definitely ahead of the curve ( as I've been described by others) and treated that way by my employers.



I came on this site originally to give out the straight info and correct a lot of what I was reading. There was a lot of "anti-Andy" posts in the beginning but I had the national and international experience to back up what I said so thankfully, that didn't last very long. But I have seen the downslide of the hobby. In fact, I don't know if you are following my "Wigglers 2" thread but I have started another Angelfish hatchery just because those same people who were in my past and are still in the biz, have told me how bad the fish have gotten and there hasn't been the quantity or quality available since I closed my last hatchery in the mid 1980s. That tells me things are not all honey and roses in the fish hobby and that saddens me. I will say, I am amazed at the wild fish that are available today as they weren't available or some even discovered when I was importing. (I'm actually a little jealous of those who are importing them now. New fish were always the highlight of any new shipment. )So there is always something new to learn. I'd just like to figure out a way to help those new hobbyists get the information we all know now so they don't need to kill the same fish to learn that we already killed. Maybe that's not possible? I don't know. But I'll keep trying

This is gold! You sir, are one to look up to for young aquarists. I've been in the hobby for 11 years, and a lot of trial and error has helped me learn. I've read through dozens of articles and books, and have tried to separate fact from fiction. I joined the forum two years ago and have a learned a lot, but I've also learned who to trust the most too.
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:51 PM   #14
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Funny, I kept myself housed during college by raising thousands of FW fish and some importing at my fish farm back in the 70's. Angel fish was our speciality, had maybe 50 breeding pairs. I and my friends did the angel fish thing clear into the 90's. We supplied about a four state area and our own retail store. Farm had about 200, 20 gallon long tanks that I built and about 15,000 gallon in pools we setup for live bearers.


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Old 07-02-2015, 08:07 PM   #15
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I'll admit, I often find myself skeptical when a newcomer comes bearing advice to a forum they just joined. It's a bad habit I need to stop. I must agree with Andy, just because some guy with 4000 posts says something doesn't make it to be true.

As a younger aquarist (20 in July) I find myself looking up to you older folks with years of experience under your wing.

Point being, I should be just as skeptical to you guys as I am to a newcomer. Just because they are new doesn't mean it's not sound advice.


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Old 07-02-2015, 08:22 PM   #16
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Somebody earlier noted that there are things we all agree on and others that we don't. It is because in some instances no one has shown it has to be done a certain way. Many different approaches still end in success. An example: if I began posting that my coral grew explosively if I added diet coke everyday, and there was science I could quote behind it and it worked for everybody, adding diet coke dosing would become as basic as using pure water when making SW. That's the process the hobby has operated under since the first under gravel filter. The hobby tends to vet its most important contributions, like LED's, by being very skeptical until proven and even then there are still detractors. But in the end it is always just the opinion of the poster and should be viewed as a effort to share information. Unless they act like a perfect jerk.


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Old 07-02-2015, 08:34 PM   #17
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I must confess I don't really have too much of an issue. Newcomers complain about old timers and old timers complain no-one listens to them, mods will cheerfully tell you how much work a forum is (which I'm sure it is!). Any advice presented can be googled for further information either with in this forum, or to be skeptical, outside the forum. I take my hat off to people that start threads and that post replies, it's being willing to share an experience.

On local issues it would be a simple matter to adjust a sticky to request additional information eg tap water chemistry results from the local council.

Buuuut - how often would this get followed? For example rarely does the sick fish what-to-post sticky get followed. That's fine if a specific question (and I put that in as I'm slack myself and have to post one &#128513. However, too many times someone posts a question, gets an answer and then disappears without either posting results or answers to follow up questions.

So I'm not sure what can be done. I tend to share my time and experience (for what it is worth) as well as my interests to give something back to the people that shared theirs. I don't have a lot of experience with forums so I don't know how the 'forum experience' can be improved I guess.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:57 PM   #18
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I always try to remember what I know vs what I don't. Even after keeping fish for a long time I'll take the advice of others when they show me they know what they're doing. Even with loaches, my favorite group of fish, I have to try to remind myself that other people may know just as much as I do. I'm still young and being cocky in my own knowledge comes naturally, it's an instinct I have to fight
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:04 PM   #19
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I like what Andy ,Dela and Sini said!
I'll add;
Listen to the old guys!
Most are not in this hobby because they have been killing tropicals for the last 35+ years!
Eventually you need to qualify/vet if you lack the experience/judgement.
Makes me so happy I know who to ask!!!
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:24 PM   #20
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Now I'll throw a real wrench in this whole conversation, I've known some older people, in the biz as well, that I wouldn't ask directions to the street from so age is not always the best criteria either. I think it's more about current and former experience that helps qualify a person's ability to accurately advise. To be honest, another reason I got back into breeding fish was because I was helping someone on this site breeding his Angels because he was getting nowhere with the advice he was getting here and on other sites. I had not kept an Angelfish in a home aquarium since the mid 1980s but I had him follow my instructions, with no deviations, which were the same instructions I had been using since the 1960s , and he was overloaded with fish in no time. Then he had an issue with a new fish that I couldn't remember ever encountering before which got me thinking, if I was going to be able to help people with today's fish, I needed to be keeping them today as well. The rest , as they say, can be found in my Wigglers 2 thread.
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