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Old 07-03-2015, 08:19 PM   #31
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Maybe, Caliban, it's because we are in different countries that we have different experiences. The European faction of the hobby was usually more advanced than us in the U.S. for a long time.
Here in the states, there are still areas where Mom & Pops are still the #1 resource for those seeking local advice. Given a choice, I'd prefer a M & P over a chain or internet store but again, that's me. But let's not beat the dead horse. To each their own. This is however, a perfect example of how one person's experience can be different from another's with the same fish, only due to their locality or time in the hobby. A great example of this is the Redtailed Shark. I can tell you all about the wild ones. Sadly, as I understand it, there aren't any wild ones left. So we today have to talk about tank raised ones which, believe it or not, are different because they were tank raised. ( I still have the TFH magazine in my collection which documented the first redtail sharks being tank bred. )

Regarding my wigglers thread on Google: I just did a google search for freshwater Angelfish and breeding freshwater angelfish, what both threads are mainly about, and neither my Wigglers thread nor the original Wigglers at last!!! thread was to be found in the first 4 & 5 pages respectively. ( Wigglers returns pages about worms and Wigglers 2 has me on the second page after the worms.) I gave up after 5 pages because let's face it, who usually digs that deep when they are new? They read what comes up first. (Or at least that's what I do. ) Considering that the original one was commented in by both hobbyist and professional breeders from this site and pretty much everything one would need to know about breeding these fish was discussed within that thread ( and was more inclusive than any 1 book or internet article I've read), if nobody told someone to look for it by name, it wouldn't have been found or searched for. THAT'S my point. The internet answers only the questions you ask it. It doesn't tell you what questions to ask.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your first tank. While I was working in retail stores, there were many to choose from and it was quite easy to find one that knew what they were doing just by the appearance of the store. Healthy fish look different in a tank than sick fish. But I knew about the nitrogen cycle back in the 1960s, by my pet shop owning Mentor, so why your store didn't tell you about it is a puzzle to me but then again, not every store was run by people who knew what they were doing. And this all feeds back into the basic theme of this thread: Who do you trust and who do you listen to? And Thanks, for letting me know my thread can be found through Google. I would have never thought to look for it through there.
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Old 07-04-2015, 01:50 AM   #32
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One thing folks don't like to hear is that a reef is a marathon run, not a sprint. A truly stable system can take years. There are few short cuts. That also distresses newbies. Success is just a bottle of magic elixir away. Not.


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Old 07-04-2015, 04:52 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Andy Sager View Post
Maybe, Caliban, it's because we are in different countries that we have different experiences. The European faction of the hobby was usually more advanced than us in the U.S. for a long time.

Here in the states, there are still areas where Mom & Pops are still the #1 resource for those seeking local advice. Given a choice, I'd prefer a M & P over a chain or internet store but again, that's me. But let's not beat the dead horse. To each their own. This is however, a perfect example of how one person's experience can be different from another's with the same fish, only due to their locality or time in the hobby. A great example of this is the Redtailed Shark. I can tell you all about the wild ones. Sadly, as I understand it, there aren't any wild ones left. So we today have to talk about tank raised ones which, believe it or not, are different because they were tank raised. ( I still have the TFH magazine in my collection which documented the first redtail sharks being tank bred. )



Regarding my wigglers thread on Google: I just did a google search for freshwater Angelfish and breeding freshwater angelfish, what both threads are mainly about, and neither my Wigglers thread nor the original Wigglers at last!!! thread was to be found in the first 4 & 5 pages respectively. ( Wigglers returns pages about worms and Wigglers 2 has me on the second page after the worms.) I gave up after 5 pages because let's face it, who usually digs that deep when they are new? They read what comes up first. (Or at least that's what I do. ) Considering that the original one was commented in by both hobbyist and professional breeders from this site and pretty much everything one would need to know about breeding these fish was discussed within that thread ( and was more inclusive than any 1 book or internet article I've read), if nobody told someone to look for it by name, it wouldn't have been found or searched for. THAT'S my point. The internet answers only the questions you ask it. It doesn't tell you what questions to ask.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your first tank. While I was working in retail stores, there were many to choose from and it was quite easy to find one that knew what they were doing just by the appearance of the store. Healthy fish look different in a tank than sick fish. But I knew about the nitrogen cycle back in the 1960s, by my pet shop owning Mentor, so why your store didn't tell you about it is a puzzle to me but then again, not every store was run by people who knew what they were doing. And this all feeds back into the basic theme of this thread: Who do you trust and who do you listen to? And Thanks, for letting me know my thread can be found through Google. I would have never thought to look for it through there.

Perhaps there a many differences that I am unaware of in the US. Why is it so that people still turn to mom and pop stores? Sometimes it's because people buy fish for the wrong reasons, their daughter wants a goldfish, because they are relaxing, the Sharks look cool etc etc. it's only when they die they begin to ask questions...but as time goes on more and more people will pick up their phone and do a little research before they invest.

Anyways each to their own as you say

Btw you have to type in the exact title of your thread to find it my point is is that if it had been called something more generic..'how to breed angel fish' and the information is well enough received, eventually the hits would take your link to the top. Most fish questions you type in a search engine mainly give links to forums like this.


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Old 07-04-2015, 05:41 AM   #34
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Wow! Such a good thread!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sager View Post
The only thing I can offer is to tell people to question "What qualifies the person giving the advice, to be giving advice?" While I understand that sites such as this one are here and open for all to post, is that really a good thing, especially to a newbie? Personally, I'm not so sure.
I personally think that the forums are an excellent thing for the hobby. I will use myself as an example of why.

I have always been fascinated by fish and always wanted a fish tank. When I was 13 (15 years ago) A small 15ish gallon hex tank was given to me for christmas. I went to the fish store and did exactly what many new people were told, fill it, wait for a day, and then add fish. There were no mom and pop LFS in my area. Every single time all my fish would die and then I would empty the tank bleach it, and put it away for a few months before trying again. I gave up after a while and then tried again when I was 19 and moved out of my parents house (again no new information) and the same thing happened of course. I ended up giving it one last try in a larger tank where I bought a pair of jeweled cichlids (1" per gallon and it was fine) which promptly murdered everything in the tank when they bred. I managed to keep just the male alive for years.. I don't know how.

Then 2.5 years ago a good friend of mine moved in with me and saw my tank and decided she wanted to keep fish and I decided to give it one last try. That was the time I found this website and learned just how horribly I was doing things. If it wasn't for Aquarium Advice I wouldn't be in this hobby at all.

Yes, I am still a relative newcomer to the hobby. But I have spent an obscene amount of time researching, conversing, and learning; most of which would have been much more difficult without forums such as this.

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Originally Posted by ImACoolguy View Post
I'll admit, I often find myself skeptical when a newcomer comes bearing advice to a forum they just joined. It's a bad habit I need to stop. I must agree with Andy, just because some guy with 4000 posts says something doesn't make it to be true.
How about someone with 11,000 posts *flex*

I am guilty of the exact same thing, but I take that all as part of getting to know people. That's just how it works in life. If you've been working a job for years and a newbie comes in and tells you that you're doing things wrong then of course you're going to be skeptical and ask for some qualifications. There's nothing preventing a person from going to a forum and proclaiming to be an expert in some field and use big words to make himself seem smart when he doesn't actually know anything.

If you truly know what you're talking about it will come out in time and people will accept you with open arms much like has happened with Andy.


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I'll just add one little snippet. I've found a few people on here to be my "go to" for specific questions regarding specific circumstances. Rather than post a thread and risk opinionated derailment? Simply pm them with the question. Hasn't failed me yet. Now I wouldn't recommend seeking special attention with constant pms. It's always nice to have that ace in the hole!
I kind of do that. I will start the threads asking the questions and then send out a PM to ask people to check out my thread. Without the discussions how will other people learn?

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Originally Posted by Andy Sager View Post
Sadly, as I understand it, there aren't any wild ones left. So we today have to talk about tank raised ones which, believe it or not, are different because they were tank raised. ( I still have the TFH magazine in my collection which documented the first redtail sharks being tank bred. )
There was actually a small wild population of red tailed sharks found in an out of the way river last year or so
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Old 07-04-2015, 08:55 AM   #35
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One thing folks don't like to hear is that a reef is a marathon run, not a sprint. A truly stable system can take years. There are few short cuts. That also distresses newbies. Success is just a bottle of magic elixir away. Not.


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Why's that out of interest? Is it just stuff has to grow into a population or something. One day I intend to get rid of another couch and get a SW fish tank.
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:22 AM   #36
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How about someone with 11,000 posts *flex*





I kind of do that. I will start the threads asking the questions and then send out a PM to ask people to check out my thread. Without the discussions how will other people learn?

There was actually a small wild population of red tailed sharks found in an out of the way river last year or so [/QUOTE]

I have many more and I still don't know what I'm talking about post count can be misleading.. I've read some excellent posts from someone new to the forumn, I've also read a reoccurring slurry of doodoo info from someone with a few thousand posts. Cross referencing is key! Couldn't be any easier to Google something these days.. it's the reading part that some may be afraid of heh.. true on the threads andy! I hope a few of mine have saved people a few bucks and clumps of hair!

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Old 07-04-2015, 01:38 PM   #37
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I think the bottom line is that some on these forums want to help and some just want to see their names in print and what's sad is that we can't or don't know who is which until after the damage is done. That's about all I was trying to bring out.

As for the wild Red Tailed sharks: YIPPEEEEE Glad to hear it. Hopefully, only a few will be kept in tanks to strengthen the tank bred lines and the environment where they are will be kept free of development and pollution so that they have the needs necessary to survive the ages. Habitat destruction will be the downfall of more species than the aquarium hobby I'm afraid.

Lastly, regarding the Mom & Pop shops, in the U.S., they were the backbone of the hobby and in many cases, fish keeping wouldn't exist here had it not been for the M & Ps. Maybe that's why I am so passionate about them as I grew up in a time where there were many and when I was in business, many of them were my customers so I knew who I was dealing with and they were, for the most part, a fairly highly educated bunch when it came to fish keeping. Compared to what I see today, it's like comparing the ol' Apples to Oranges thing again.

As Brookster said, Hopefully some of our posts have saved some lives, money and hair. That's why I came here in the first place. ( Thankfully, I still have my hair. )
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Old 07-04-2015, 01:54 PM   #38
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This discussion pinpoints why im always nervous abt posting. I get quite frustrated, and even mad for a bit, i had to adjust. We all need to remember that nothing is guarenteed. Not even our ways 100% of the time. And i just hope readers and followers understand that as well. Im horrible at explaining myself, but im getting better because i want to help. Everyone should always know that its doubtful anyone is purposely trying to give you bad advice in our hobby.

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Old 07-04-2015, 02:41 PM   #39
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This discussion pinpoints why im always nervous abt posting. I get quite frustrated, and even mad for a bit, i had to adjust. We all need to remember that nothing is guarenteed. Not even our ways 100% of the time. And i just hope readers and followers understand that as well. Im horrible at explaining myself, but im getting better because i want to help. Everyone should always know that its doubtful anyone is purposely trying to give you bad advice in our hobby.

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+1 I often find myself second guessing the info I read nowadays in fear of it being incorrect. I've been chewed out more than once and makes me wonder how much I read is truth.


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Old 07-04-2015, 03:24 PM   #40
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Nobody is perfect. We operate in a environment where there is still much to be known. The basics haven't changed much though. Using forums has been as effective, for me, as the piles of books and magazines I use to pour over to find answers.


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